Brad Leeman on Leading at Home Through Presence, Play, and Preparation

Brad: [00:00:00] Kids want to be wherever you are. And, at least for us, this has been a great, you know, tool to be present, play and then also be inspired through play. And I, I can't reiterate that enough from a dad remembering the fun of play is hard sometimes, and they, they take you out there and they're like, go down the slide, and you're like, okay, I'll go down the slide.

The next thing you know, you're like, okay, that was actually fun. Like, let's, let's go down the slide some more. You know? But just remembering that is so important for the rest of your life is to play in everything that you do because there's moments of happiness, there's moments of stress, but those little nuggets, you just have to continue to pull those, you know, those nuggets of positivity out and latch onto 'em. Otherwise, you can get caught up in whatever it is that you're doing.

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Michael: Welcome to Gap to Gig, the show for dads navigating the in-between season when work, identity, and [00:01:00] priorities start asking different questions. Here we talk about what that season looks like and how to move through it with intention. I'm your host Michael Jacobs, and today I'm joined by Brad Leeman.

Brad's a retired US Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel, combat aviator, and F-35 test Pilot. Spent nearly two decades leading in environments where preparation, clarity, and execution were non-negotiable. After serving as director of integrated test operations for the F-35 joint program, Brad transitioned into entrepreneurship and founded SwingSesh, a company built around a simple belief: parents shouldn't be sitting on the sidelines of their kids' lives.

Brad brings military leadership, an engineering mindset, startup execution, and real world fatherhood into everything he builds. Brad, I'm excited to chat with you today. Welcome to the show. I'm really glad you're here.

Brad: Yeah. Thanks Michael. Appreciate you having me on.

Michael: Of course. Yeah. So, you've spent years operating in high pressure environments where mistakes mattered and preparation was everything. Before we get into fatherhood and business, I want to start with how that experience shaped the way you think about leadership. When you look back on your years in the Marine Corps, what [00:02:00] did leadership actually look like day to day, not in theory, but more in practice?

Brad: Yeah. Leadership in the Marine Corps is, you know, it's a very well taught element. It's a, a integral portion of what we do on the, the day to day. The biggest aspect of that that I learned was how important your performance matters. So, it's a very results-based industry. It's not about what you could have done, should have done, might have done. It's about what you did and what you did that day.

Michael: Right.

Brad: And so, what that kind of led me to was most of your actual leadership comes down to preparation. You know, how much did you train for that? How much did you prepare for it? How much did you study for it? Because in the, in the actual day of execution, that's what everybody's looking to you for in terms of, you know, direction, answers, and/ or help just to facilitate help. And so your preparation, I think is probably the, the key to that leadership. [00:03:00] And then it's by example, you know, getting out in front of the Marines, being with the Marines, and you know, that translates, I think, to almost everything that we do.

Michael: Right. So preparation, leading by example, how did that, how did becoming a dad kind of change the way you thought about leadership? Or did it?

Brad: Yeah, I think it, it does change the way that you think about it in the sense of there's only so much preparation that you can do in the sense of its not been laid out before. These things haven't been done before. And I'm not saying that everything in the Marine Corps has been done before, but it's, you know, there's, there are standards, there are, you know, methodologies in place that kind of help structure that.

When it comes to fatherhood, there's a thousand ways to do it and you just gotta pick, you know, one of the right ones. So...

Michael: Right, right.

Brad: And, I think, you know, for me it's not so much that everything changed, but now there's a aspect of, you know, tender loving care [00:04:00] and fragility that goes along with that. And you don't walk away from it.

There's no, you know, I'm gonna change bases or I'm gonna change jobs for a little bit. You're not walking away. This is, this is it. So,

Michael: right,

Brad: I think that, that also has a large impact on how you feel about what you're doing day to day.

Michael: Yeah. That's interesting. I hadn't thought about the permanence. I guess I've taken that for granted of fatherhood, right, of like you're in it for the long run. Like you said, you can't change bases, you can't change jobs, you can't retire. It's...

Brad: And, you, I think you feel that with the decisions that you're making on the day to day because you, you know, the gravity of it now, it's not just about you. It's kind of about, well, what do I want, you know, my son or daughter to take away from this?

Michael: Right.

Brad: And that little subtle change can sometimes change the tone or the, the, the meaning of what it is you're going after in that moment,

Michael: so...

Absolutely. And I assume that there's also probably some [00:05:00] similarities between leading in the military versus leading at home. Would that be a safe assumption?

Brad: Yeah, I mean, there's certainly, there are certainly some things that are similar. There's also some things that are different. Like in the Marine Corps, those folks are all there. They want to be there. They want to serve in that purpose, and so, you're kind of leading the willing. And I think when it comes to the home front, sometimes you're not leading the willing and sometimes you're not leading.

And, I, that's totally okay. I've, I've talked about this before just in the sense of a lot of books out there talking about leadership, they focus on the fact that, you know, anyone can learn this and do it, but the reality is that your style and your likes and interests need to match up with that of the, the organization that you're leading.

I would not be as successful at leading, you know, the moms club or, you know, you [00:06:00] know, pick your topic or maybe making baby strollers like that may not be my thing where I could lead an organization and do. Maybe I can, maybe I can't, but it's not necessarily what I'm focused on or what I'm good at, but when it comes to other activities, you know, health and fitness or aviation things like, I am really good at that.

When it comes to teaching and leading older folks, I'm, I'm very good. That's one of my areas of expertise, and so, when you try to marry that at home, sometimes it works really well and sometimes it doesn't. And I think one of the biggest principles that folks miss is that being a good leader is also knowing when to be a good follower.

And you know, there are times when you know, at our house, I affectionately refer to my wife as mama because she's kind of the mama bear, if you will.

Michael: Sure.

Brad: But when it's her thing, like I support it with every ounce of my being, you know, so that. We can work together as a team because there's times [00:07:00] when I need her help and times when she needs my help and being that good follower is a, is a huge aspect of being a good leader.

Michael: Right. I love that. I love how you can recognize that leadership, yes, lead is the lead word of leadership, right? So you have to lead at times, but also recognizing when it's time to fall back and allow others to step up and lead the way when they are the, the experts in that, that part of the field and right, and at home, that means a partnership, typically, right? Now, not everybody, you know, has that partnership. And there was a time in my life where I was a single dad and, you know, it wasn't, I didn't have somebody to fall back on and it was, I had to show that leadership all the time, but when you do have a partner, it is, tip-, tends to be more healthy to share that responsibility.

Brad: Yeah. One of the things I fall back on is on your best day when you're giving what [00:08:00] you feel like is 110%, when you look at it from the marriage, the best you've done is give 50% to the marriage

Michael: Yep.

Brad: because the other 50 is coming from the partner and you're just like, holy cow. So, on the day that, you know, you were like slacking off a little bit or you know, not feeling good that day, you're the 40% mark on a 50% thing, and you're just like, man, all right, so how can I really impact this?

And that really helps you know, like, when to support and when to, you know, kind of pick up, you know, to help her complete her 50% however you guys have that divided out.

Michael: Right.

Brad: It all has to get done. And I think that supporting element and just thinking about it that way really keeps your mindset right in the sense of, you know, you're not the whole thing. And when you focus too much on that, what you're doing or what you're, feeling, you're not as empathetic as you potentially need to be to the situation.

Michael: Yep. That's a great perspective. There's a fluidity [00:09:00] to what you bring to the table, right? Some days you have to bring a little bit more if your partner is

Brad: yeah,

Michael: perhaps not feeling well or not available for whatever reason, they might have a meeting or what have you, or an appointment, and you need to step up and do a little bit more than usual.

So, some days you're contributing your 50%, some days you're contributing more. Some days you're contributing less, but it's a partnership. So, you hope that together you guys are making up that a hundred percent of

Brad: Yeah.

Michael: what needs to get done. So, many dads feel a constant pull between being present at home, giving that 50% of, of the a hundred percent, but also being driven at work.

And you've started your own business and while still leading your family or, or, you know, having this family, when did you first feel that tension? I assume you felt some tension at some point between what you do at SwingSesh and also being present at home.

Brad: Yeah, I think [00:10:00] it, honestly, it started while I was still in the Marine Corps. The tension that we started feeling was we're moving every three years. I'm going on deployment cycles. We're rotating through. Love the lifestyle. It's, it's a phenomenal experience. But then at some point, we just wanted to start shifting our focus more towards, you know, being present for the family and trying to enable that.

There's, when you, and when you look back, there's always the you can only see the goods. It's hard to see the negatives.

Michael: Right.

Brad: But when you're, you're in it at the moment, you feel as if that lack of control is going to really, you know, impact raising kids and moving them through schools and things like that.

And, so, we weren't opposed to it necessarily, but at the same time we were looking for, know, opportunities to control our own destiny. And then the flip side of that [00:11:00] was we knew we were gonna hit the end of the Marine Corps. And then how did we want to absorb that? What was that life gonna look like?

Michael: Right.

Brad: And we wanted to have a little bit more control we thought than what we had with the Marine Corps and, building the, the community of what we wanted outta the community was kind of part of that. And we thought the entrepreneurial road would be a really great way to start. At the same time, I'd been dragging my, my wife's, she graduated from Ball State with landscape architecture and then went to Harvard Graduate School of Design for urban planning and real estate development.

So, she is,

Michael: Very cool.

Brad: a, a force, a force to be reckoned with on her own right.

Michael: Sounds like it.

Brad: And I'd been, I, I say dragging her around. It wasn't like she was kicking and screaming. We wanted to do this life together. But, it makes it really hard for her to have a traditional career. And so she had started doing contract work and things like that [00:12:00] and, you know, I fully encouraged that type of activity. And I think what we found was, hey, we can do this on our own, like through what the other side looks like. Now, what is it that we want to do? And I had the idea when we were going through test pilot school, we were living in a motor home at the time, and she was pregnant with our daughter.

And I have ideas come through all the time, but a lot of times they're, they're either too costly to get started or

Michael: Right.

Brad: just too wild and crazy to actually make it work. But this one was one where I was like, hey babe, what about making a play set that I could work out on with the kids? That way I'm home and present for that hour of the day.

And then you get a relief and you can use it when you wanna use it and have them out there, or not have them out there, but it's a dual-functioning device. And she was like, that's actually, you know, a good idea. So that's kind of the genesis of you know, how we

got to where we're at with

Michael: Sure.

Brad: the entrepreneurial piece.

Michael: Sure. So you built SwingSesh essentially to solve this [00:13:00] tension, right? It was, you wanted to spend more time with your kids, you also wanted to stay physically fit, and it was like, how do I marry those two together so that I can get my workouts in and do it with the kids?

Brad: Right, and it solved an entrepreneurial desire as well, you know, to control your own destiny, kind of on the, on the opposite side of the Marine Corps. So we started it, I had, you know, quite a few years. I guess I had five years left as I was working towards retirement. And then, you know, we started the business and started working through it.

And, yeah, it was, I wanted to, I wanted to stay fit and be present and the only way I could really think about doing all of those things while still being a Marine during the day was to pull that gym time home and spend it with the family. So, and it's turned out to be a really phenomenal experience as well.

Michael: Yeah. Such a smart idea. It's you know, sometimes it's just focusing [00:14:00] on what matters to you brings you that, that right result. And it's just, when you think about it, it's like, that is really smart of yes, I can actually take what I need to do to stay fit for my work and for my own health, but also

Brad: Yeah.

Michael: Have that time with my kids.

And I imagine, and we might get to this later of like, you're also demonstrating your kids the lifestyle you want to promote for them, which is being physically active. You know, not necessarily sitting in front of a screen all day, but like, yeah, watch, you know, dad is working out on, while we're, we're playing. Like, that is a fun activity to do. It's something that, that you're modeling that behavior for them.

Brad: Right. And I think a lot of people don't realize how important that is. And I don't, I, I knew it just, you know, from my leadership experience prior, but the relative impact was not well understood in my mind prior to starting SwingSesh. So, I often tell people we got lucky in that sense as a parent because, [00:15:00] I knew what we wanted. We made it. And then it happened to have a whole host of benefits, some of which we foresaw, but a lot of which we did not. And it was only through later research trying to figure out how good or not is this, where do we need to be careful? Where don't we? That research that really led me to, man, this is, this thing is very, very powerful in a whole lot of different ways. I'll give you a quick example of that. My daughter knows more about squatting today than I did probably in high school and early college.

Michael: Wow.

Brad: And it's not because she's squatting, but it's because she has seen it repetitively over and over. She knows where she can be, where she can't be. She knows when daddy's working out very hard with heavy weight and she knows when dad's doing light weight, and she can, she can even make up workouts now that are extremely challenging workouts.

So you're like, gotta gotta dial her back a little bit. You know,

Michael: right, [00:16:00]

Brad: I know daddy's a superhero in your mind, but he has limitations here.

Michael: Sure.

Brad: But yeah, it's, that aspect of it has been really cool. And another piece is, as I was doing some of the studying was, kids have a tendency to, basically, it's a 80% chance of arriving at the same situation that their parents were in.

And when you start thinking about that, it's really up to you as a parent to make those changes, whatever they are, that either, or to reinforce those things that you loved about your own childhood, you know?

Michael: Right.

Brad: And if you, if you're not doing that, there's only a 20% chance that they have the, you know, the bandwidth opportunity, mental fortitude, et cetera, et cetera, to make that change later.

Michael: Right.

Brad: And I thought that was a wild statistic just from a, you know, obesity in America and things like that. Like, man, like we have to be modeling those [00:17:00] behaviors. It's not enough just to say you should do this, or you need to do this. It's, you have to go and show that hard work. And I, I didn't realize how powerful that was gonna be.

Michael: Right. That requires you being proactive and sometimes it's easy to just sit back and be like, yeah, it will just, we'll let this one slide today. You know, I feel like just taking it easy today, they don't have to see me doing anything productive or useful.

Brad: Well, and our society's not set up to support that from a parental perspective. You know, and I, I, I often talk about that. Like, you go to soccer games and soccer practices or, you know, football practices. But if there was like a run club or a, you know, even just doing burpees on the sideline was socially acceptable

Michael: Sure.

Brad: from a parent perspective, it would wildly change like what it is, you know, that we're doing and experiencing on a daily basis. Your kids would see you doing your activity. They're doing their activity, [00:18:00] and it's not, it doesn't have to take away.

Michael: Right.

Brad: In 15 minutes of their 45-minute practice, you could be a totally different person at the end of sports season if you would choose that or if we would choose that, you know, collectively. But it's little different things that you have to do to, to kind of make it work.

Michael: Yeah. It's interesting. I, you know, I coached hockey for about 10 years and there was certainly an athletic aspect to it, and we had to, you could tell the, the kids that trained harder. You know, especially come game time, you know, a third period who is, you know, struggling to skate up the ice and who was still blazing as if it was the first period, you know, cruising down the ice.

And there's that balance, right, of like, kids today, they're looking for that immediate fun factor, right?

And so it's how do you make some of the drills that are not so fun, interesting and fun? But there are ways, and [00:19:00] again, you have to be proactive in figuring out, designing those programs. Like, okay, you know, kids might not like doing burpees, but is there a way to integrate that in a way that engages them?

And I'm sure there is. I mean, I, I don't coach soccer or football, so I couldn't tell you what the, that answer would be, but like for me, it's like in hockey, yes, there are ways to integrate skating drills that on the surface kids are just like, great, I gotta skate up the ice. But no, you can actually turn them into things that are fun.

You can make them competitive. You can integrate other skills into those drills that you, yeah, they don't want to work on skating, they want to work on shooting, but maybe you combine the two, so they have to skate to in order to shoot. So, there are ways to, to do that, but like you said, it takes someone to actually integrate that in and make it socially acceptable to, you know, families.

I don't think, you know, during a game, are you gonna see the kids doing burpees on the sidelines? Probably not. But are there things they can do, you know, pre-game or during [00:20:00] practices that can help them, you know, not just give them that entertainment of the sport, but get them more physically active and involved so that they can have greater benefits beyond just the, the sporting aspect of the game.

Brad: Right. Well, and I think what I look at more than the kids and what the kids are doing is what the parents are doing. And I think that's, that is the key to everything. Because if, and I think a lot of parents miss this, but if you stop and think about it, all of us have an inner monologue.

Michael: Yep.

Brad: And what you don't realize, or I'm not saying you in the, a direct sense, but

Michael: Understood.

Brad: What a lot of people don't realize is you're building their inner monologue. Like they're putting your recording in their brain every day that you're talking, that you're saying things. The good days, the bad days. And they're parsing through that to figure out, [00:21:00] you know, who they are and what repeats on, you know, every day, and so having the positive mental attitude is like number one, like, that's like a household rule is like,

Michael: Yep.

Brad: don't say can't, or at least try very, very hard not to say can't. Like, there's always a way and it's a matter of time, energy, and resource. Do you want to put it in or not? And sometimes the answer is no, and that's totally fine, but you know, I don't love the word can't.

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: Personal thing, but yeah, that's a, an aspect of it. And then it comes to me and my wife doing those activities and setting that, that pace.

My kids will do anything with you. And I mean, literally like you wanna do hill sprints, they'll run hill sprints with you.

Michael: Wow.

Brad: If you told the kids to go run hill sprints, no chance. Not a chance that they're gonna do it.

Michael: Right, right.

Brad: It's hard work, you know? Why would you do that? You know, we were out the other night and, I was like, let's [00:22:00] just do family relay sprints. And they're like, what, what does that dad look? How does that work? And I was like, well, the first person's gonna run from this telephone pole to that telephone pole. Turn around, shout a name, and then the next person goes, the last person that gets there does the next one and starts it and like that turned into a evolution that the kids like, they're like, let's go for, let's go for a walk and do sprints.

And you're like, all right, this is, it's like a self-perpetuating thing, but it takes initiative and parents turning it into a fun thing. You know, we, you kind of spoke about burpees earlier. We do burpees as, when we're frustrated and everybody's kind of arguing, there's, there's burpees, we just start doing burpees, and I make the kids do team burpees, so they have to high five each other.

And they get so frustrated that like, one's not high fiving right. And the other one's, and then eventually, they get the blood flowing and they start feeling a little bit better, and then everybody's giggling and having a good time again. But it's just part of, sort of, I use it as a change of [00:23:00] dynamic, you know, to get refocused on, let's work together as a team and not have to, to deal with this.

And they, you know, they, they love it.

Michael: Yep.

Brad: As much as like, it's not fun to do burpees. It's, they like the fact that you're there, you're watching, and I'll demonstrate 'em and they'll say to, you know, dad, do it again. I need to, I need to, make sure, you know?

Michael: Right.

Brad: Just little things. But it's, that leadership aspect I think really does play a big role in it.

You doing that work and showing them how, how hard it actually is to do, and the fact that you're willing to engage in it and that that is, a huge signal to them to, to, do that same type of work.

Michael: Absolutely. That, that's awesome. I like how you, your focus is on your actions, not your words, right? It's, you're, you're demonstrating for them what you want from them, what you expect from them, [00:24:00] right? You're not just telling them what to do, you're showing them. You're, you're participating in the actions.

And I think that the most powerful thing that you said, and one of the most powerful things I've heard in a long time is you are building your child's inner monologue, right?

Like, that is, I don't think, as dads, we tend to think about that often enough of like what we tell the kids or what we teach the kids now is they're processing that and that becomes how they behave, right, so,

Brad: Right.

Michael: if we say one thing and do...

Brad: And not just words.

Michael: Right. If we say one thing and do something else, they're gonna process that, right? Like, it comes down to your actions. And your actions are going to build their inner monologue, which is going to set them up for how they're going to lead going forward, right, as, as adults, what they're going to do as adults, the decisions they're going to make [00:25:00] get formed pretty early on in life, right, so, and it's, it's hard to change people's ways. You know, the older you get, the harder it is to change your ways they say. Like, you gotta start early in terms of helping them figure out how to make decisions for themselves that are the, the best decisions for themselves and for those around them. And...

Brad: absolutely. I think adding to that, the, the reality of how powerful they are that is what starts to really blossom. And that's, you can, you can actually see that, you know, and, and probably measure it quantifiably, although you never know where they would've been if they, if you didn't. So,

Michael: Right.

Brad: it's not a true A/B type of thing, but I, I think back of a couple of like, what did you take away from your parents, you know, and I, I, I often say that my mom was the dreamer, and it, she was the one that said you could do anything. You just, you know, if you, if you go and do it, like you can do it.

Michael: Right.

Brad: You just [00:26:00] gotta make that choice and, and make it happen. And my dad was like the, he's a quiet guy. I mean, you can, you can talk to him. He is, you know, a talker, but not like, you know, when you start working with him, you see like he's just a quiet, like continues, not many words are said, but expectations of where you should be and shouldn't be in all of this. And it's like a silent language that I think a lot of men probably have.

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: And those, like the patient resolve and execution I took away from my dad and the dreamer mentality that you can do anything I took away from mom. And I think I got really lucky and fortunate in the sense of that's a pretty powerful combination if you can keep your mind open to, you know, pressing and continuing and making hard choices, and you can continually formulate ways to execute that. Like it's a, it's kind of a golden ticket. And that's where I, I really try to focus on that with the kids is, you know, [00:27:00] don't, not to say that you can't do something and sometimes they're very hard. We can do it, but we can do hard things.

Michael: Right.

Brad: And then making sure that you're actually doing execution and leadership. The foundation of leadership is inspiration, right? So you can talk all day long, but sometimes your talks are inspirational, but nine times out of ten, your kid's eyes glossed over at word like, you know, "six, seven", whatever it is that,

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: that it's like going on in their head at the moment, like shiny toy, like,

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: Ahh, I'm over here.

So it just has next to no impact as much as like you wanna stop and like reason with them, not as powerful as an action or, you know, something that does truly inspire them. I'm sure you've had those same moments where you're like, something happened when you did something, didn't think twice about it, but it, like, for whatever reason in your kid's mind, they're like, dad, when you did that, that was really cool.

And I thought that was, you know, really neat to see. And you're like, what? [00:28:00] Like, wow.

Michael: Right. Yeah.

Brad: I'm so glad. Don't get me wrong, but I did not realize I was forming a long lasting childhood memory at that moment.

Michael: Right.

Brad: Like, it was just a thing that we were doing at the time, so...

Michael: Right, right. You never know what's going to click with them and what is going to have such a high impact on them, which is why it's so important not to just use words, but to show actions because you never know what, what they're gonna latch onto.

Brad: Right.

Michael: It, it would seem like, yeah, I could predict what my kids are gonna, how they're gonna react to something, but in reality, no.

There's a million, they've got a million different things coming at them every day. You know, they could be in a certain mood or have just gone through a certain experience, and they react differently than, than you expect.

Yes, you're always on, but you're not always, you're not gonna be perfect every time, right?

Brad: you're not always cognizant of the moment,

Michael: Right.

Brad: it's, and that's hard. It's hard to be that. I think there's a couple [00:29:00] powerful like realizations as well when it's, when it comes to like how much time you spend with your children.

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: And like 70% of that time is as an adult, like, and you're like, oh my gosh.

And then you're like, the teenage years, you're not spending as much time with them because they're starting to explore the world on their own. And so the formative years are those early, you know, years. And after that, like, it's wild, you know? And as a father, it always gets you choked up thinking about it. There's, it's just how short of a duration and how powerful that is over time, I think, is often easy to overlook. And I, you have to balance that because these are your working years.

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: These are the years where you build your nest egg and the rest of your life, you know, in theory, you retire and move on.

Michael: Right.

Brad: I think in America we sort of, sometimes, we miss, we misplace the emphasis on the importance of things like, and I, I think you have to really look at that and, and, you know, when you're having kids [00:30:00] and you're raising those kids, it's okay to like focus on that evolution and do that evolution really well.

If that lowers your overall nest egg a little bit, it's probably worth it when you look back and say in those five to seven years, I, I spent that time well. I did it the right way at what I felt was the best thing that we could do, and I think that's another piece of the Marine Corps is very good at teaching you in the sense of you can be dynamic and successful. You don't have to be stuck in, you know, the same nine to five, the same house, the same town. You can be di-, dynamic and be successful. And sometimes highly successful. If, if you go from one job to the next job, sometimes you can get a promotion and, and, and move and change and rebalance those things. So, I always tell people, don't be afraid to reinvent yourself when it's time and, and you're feeling stuck.

You can do that at any opportunity, any change, new years, like [00:31:00] birthdays, whatever, like that day set, I'm gonna reinvent myself today, and set that new habit pattern and, and run with it.

Michael: Love that, and you're going to make mistakes and it's okay, right, along the way. It's, yeah, you could, you can leave this dynamic life and you can make changes and it's okay that some of those changes may not work out.

Brad: Oh yeah.

Michael: Right, it, it's gonna happen.

Brad: Failure is, is like one of the best teachers of betterment, if you will.

Michael: Sure.

Brad: You know, like I, I started a new workout. It was terribly difficult. I broke myself off inside of three weeks. And now I can't move. Not, that's really not the best plan. You're like, okay, I failed at that. I need to, I still need to do this. I know I need to do it. So how do I do it a little bit different and slower or, you know, I have a job that I thought I was gonna love, but I'm working 12 hours a day.

Michael: Yep.

Brad: Yes, it is an interesting topic, but it's taking too much of my time in these formative years. I have to make that change. [00:32:00] And I think that's the piece that, it is so easy to get stuck in a pattern and not have a self-reflective moment and say, is this what, is this what's best for me? Is this what's best for my family? And is this what's best for my spouse? And am I better for it? And if the answer is yes, then okay, great. Sometimes you're not gonna get to a yes, but you're gonna get to a, well, it's not that bad, and that's okay too,

Michael: Right, right.

Brad: but asking those questions often and sitting down and having those hard conversations with your wife is, or spouse or partner or just yourself if like, you know, you're alone at home, like it's probably the easiest time to be like, all right, it's time to, to make those changes, better myself, whatever.

But I think in a comfortable marriage, comfort is like the killer to, you know, good dynamics and, you know, reinventing the self, if that makes sense.

Michael: Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:33:00] It's so important, like you said, the, the reflective part, right? Like you can keep making those changes, but if you don't reflect on the changes you're making, like are they working? Can, what can I do better? What's not working for me? What's pulling me down right now? Like, if you don't make those changes, you're just gonna be spinning your wheel over and over and over again.

But if you learn like what worked for you, what doesn't work for you, you can start to integrate that into your future decision making similar to how you are hopefully, you know, raising your kids to be able to reflect on, okay, that is the right decision to make, that is not the right decision to make, right, as you build their, their inner monologue. So, you've spent time in elite performance environments, right?

Like you were in the Marine Corps, you were doing some pretty hardcore work if I could say so, are there any lessons from that world that actually don't translate well into family life?

Brad: Yeah, I mean, certainly, I think it sort of depends on the personality as well. But [00:34:00] the kind of the hardcoreness of, you know, military, the, the unwavering performance aspect of it. Results based. Like, you can't really be that way with your kids. Like,

Michael: Sure.

Brad: You didn't do enough pushups, you know, or you know, you didn't do enough pullups.

You can't, you just that, I mean, I'm sure that there are people out there that raise their kids in that manner. That's certainly not my style and I don't advocate advocate for that. I think the, the important balance of that is that you understand that performance does matter and it's all of the techniques, tips, tricks, and it's that study ahead of time.

It's that practice. It's the, you know, mindset piece that is, that's what I really took away as like, those are the important things to pass on because if you can get that aspect of it right, the world's your oyster at that point. There's not much that can stop you. [00:35:00] And I think in the Marine Corps, if you overemphasize on the, the results based aspects, you would basically say, well, you know, Timmy's not as strong as Sarah is, and therefore I'm gonna invest my time and effort into Sarah and Timmy's, you know, gonna sit on the sideline. And I think you wouldn't want that, right? Like,

Michael: Right.

Brad: You want to help bring your kids out in the most positive manner that, that you can. And kind of going back to that that inner monologue, piece one thing, it, it's sort of a weird dichotomy, but one of the things that I do remember from the Marine Corps very early on was, you know, comfort-based decisions. We don't make comfort-based decisions, you know, but it's about being cold, right? Like, you don't necessarily need to have all the layers on. It's yes, it's nice to have, but you're cozy warm, but you're packing out, you know, five extra pounds of gear that you know you may not need or maybe detrimental to the marathon of the mission that it is that you're about to go do.

I think the [00:36:00] interesting piece of that very specifically is when you're thinking in terms of the inner monologue, when you say things like, oh, it's cold outside, we shouldn't go out. Or, you know, oh, that's hard. Like they hear that immediately and they will repeat it. You know, like with, with or without you in front of you or not in front of you.

I think that's one of the other cool aspects of SwingSesh is we're outdoor all the time. And people always say, well, what do you do in the winter? And when it's cold outside and you're like, well, I know that when I break the threshold of the door that it's gonna be cold, so I prep myself to go, whether it's, you know, through extra layers or gloves or whatever it is, but what I don't want to instill in my kids is that at the threshold of the door, like you need to have a fear of being out there. Like, do you need to be aware? Absolutely. Are there days when maybe you should take a break? Certainly, but that's decision making. It's not living in a vacuum of, well, you know, it cold, so we're not going out. And I think that aspect [00:37:00] is, it's an interesting thing because it's a sort of a balanced dynamic of you can take it the wrong way and go too far,

Michael: Right.

Brad: or you can take the right amount of it and use it as a healthy tool to make good decisions and not be impeded by sort of that standard voice out there, if that makes any sense.

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. It's, you know, again, you are shaping the narrative for your children by not just the decisions you make, but by the actions you take. Right? And so, like, you are, you are the threshold of the door. And, yes, it might be cold out. Is it dangerously cold? Perhaps not. Maybe we have to just layer up so that we, you know, keep our bodies warm, but we can still do what we want to do and still accomplish the goals we want to accomplish.

And like you said, yeah, there, are days where it's like, you know what? We do need a day off today. Right, and you, and that's okay, too, right? Yeah. [00:38:00] It's such a, on the surface, it seems like such a straightforward philosophy, but in day to day practice, I think a lot of, a lot of us dad, sometimes we, we overcomplicate it.

Brad: It's, it's comfort.

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: And it really, like, when you stop and, and think about it, you're like, I don't, I don't wanna make comfortable or uncomfortable decisions all the time.

Michael: Right.

Brad: But the reality is that, there was actually a podcast on this not too long ago with Huberman Lab and David Goggins, and they were talking about they might be finding a portion of the brain that's dealing with willpower and that it potentially expands and shrinks based on use, and the use of it is through making a hard decision that you don't want to make.

Michael: Hmm.

Brad: And then once you start liking the thing, then it doesn't count anymore, then that will start to shrink again. And I thought it was real, really interesting because when you see people that seem as if they can do all of these hard things and you think about it in [00:39:00] that aspect, you're like, oh my gosh, that kind of makes sense.

Like, they have a wave of these decisions down to make them tenable, to make it acceptable. And you know, the way I often do it is I look at, you look at the big picture and you say, well, I'd like to be outside. And then you're like, okay, well what's preventing you? You're like, well, it's really cold and maybe dangerously cold.

And you're like, okay, well can I go out for two minutes? You're like, oh, well probably. Could you, could you be naked outside for two minutes? And you're like, well, yeah, of course you could for two. Well, okay, then you can go out. Then now we have a yes. Like,

Michael: Right.

Brad: you can go outside. Okay, so now it's how long can you go outside?

And you start, when you start really breaking it down to how do I get to a yes, you find that it's wildly easy to do a whole host of things if you take teeny bitty, bitty, bitty steps and make it happen.

Michael: Right, right.

Brad: I don't know. That's, that's how I do so many big projects and big things. It's like it's easy to get overwhelmed when I try to look at the in state, and so I build, I call 'em bubbles, [00:40:00] but I build these bubbles of what it is that I'd like to be. And I look for all of the, sort of the, the doorways that enter into that. And then I just try to get on a path that goes to one of those doorways. But I don't focus on necessarily achieving the objective as much as I focus on taking incremental steps.

And that way, 'cause I can parse that into something that I can consume and execute on daily, and don't think that I can talk about this all day. In execution, it is much harder. It's hard for me. It's hard for everyone. But, you have to take your little micro wins or you don't feel, you, you can lose steam pretty quick.

Michael: Yeah. Absolutely.

Brad: Everybody does.

Michael: Right, and it, the more people I talk to about this type of stuff, and it doesn't matter if they're a mental performance coach, a career coach, a psychologist, everybody says the same thing: one step at a time, right? Like you can't, [00:41:00] you've gotta break it down into smaller increments, into something that is more achievable because we tend to, as humans, jump to the conclusion, right, and then we make our decision based on the conclusion,

Brad: right,

Michael: right, but you can't get to that conclusion. You can't get to the end goal. You can't get to the, the finish line without taking the first step, right?

You take the first step. Now, you can take the second step, right?

You can't jump to the third step before you've taken the first two steps, right?

So, it breaking it down into something more manageable. It doesn't matter whether you're looking for a new job or you're trying to get in shape or whatever you might be trying to accomplish in the moment, right? You can't do it all at once.

You've gotta break it down into manageable chunks, into those increments, those small increments like you talked about, of one step at a time. Take the first step, then you can go onto the second step. You're not gonna be able to skip ahead, you know, most likely not gonna win the lottery and be able to retire tomorrow, right?

[00:42:00] You've got to take step one, get, you know, cross that threshold, get outside, feel that cold air, and then you can take the next step of, okay, now I can go exercise for two minutes. And suddenly that two minutes becomes five minutes. That five minutes becomes 10 minutes. Suddenly you've got a, you've got a decent workout when originally you're like, oh, it's just too cold to go outside, right? Same thing with trying to accomplish a job. Like, okay, I dunno if I can get this job. Well, maybe just start. Submit your resume. Maybe you get a call back, right? You take that first step, right?

Maybe you talk to somebody that works at the company and they introduce you to somebody, and all of a sudden you've got an interview.

It's like you don't know until you take that first step. You're looking at like, oh, I'm not qualified for that job. You don't know that necessarily, right?

Just like you don't know that, yeah, it might be 25 degrees outside, and that's much colder than you're used to. When you, you go out for a jog, maybe I just put on an extra layer.

I go test it [00:43:00] out, walk to the end of the driveway, see how it feels. Alright, now I'm outside. Not that hard to start moving my feet right? And then you start going.

Brad: I mean, I'm here. I might as well.

Michael: Right, exactly.

So it's taking those first steps. I love that, that philosophy and how you just break it down into these smaller and smaller increments.

Brad: Well, and I would, I'll also say this is you have to set yourself up for that success as well. So, you have to, like, whenever like I travel, it's so easy. You, and I say this generically because I don't have data behind it, but I know that if I go to a, a new place for work for a week or two weeks, or five weeks, whatever it is, the day that I get there, if I set a pattern, that pattern has like a 95% probability of repeating.

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: And so when you know that, and I have learned that. I'm telling you, and I'll tell everybody else this, like, if you have an opportunity to reinvent yourself, set that pattern [00:44:00] that you want to be like, okay, tonight I'm going to make my own food in the hotel room, I'm gonna do a workout, and then, after that, I will go and be involved in whatever fun, social activity is going on, but those two things have to go first and then go. Whether I do it in the morning or I do it in the evening, like, you know, I just make a, I force myself to do that. And then what you find is the next day, that decision is like almost already made.

Michael: Right.

Brad: And so you're like, well, after I get my run in this morning, then I will.

And it's just, it's a wild change. Whereas if you do it the other way and you're like, I went out to eat and we had a couple drinks, and the next day they're like, Hey, you wanna come out to eat? And you're like, oh, well yeah, let's, you know, and it's like, if you had just done it on day one,

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: It's already like, you've already figured it out. So,

Michael: Right.

Brad: anytime that you have a chance to reinvent yourself, even in these little micro environments where it's like, I'm traveling for a week. Okay, cool. I'm gonna be the best version I can be. I'm gonna [00:45:00] try to bring some aspect of that home as well. And it gives you once again, little micro wins to to make it happen.

Michael: Yeah, I mean, after all, we are creatures of habit, so if we create these new habits, we tend to follow them more often than if we just like, yeah, we'll see how it goes and take it from there.

Brad: Yeah. And your mind lies to you. It's hard to figure this out, but if you stop and think about it, if you have done anything in the past, that you can remember that clearly, and your mind is like, yeah, you don't really need to do that again, you've, you've done it, you know how to do that.

Michael: Right.

Brad: And I was at my daughter's gymnastics. I was watching, and they were doing back handsprings or something, and I was like, wow, you know, that's really impressive. And as somebody who works out constantly, I'm like, there's, I can't do a back handspring. You know, it's like the flexibility, the limberness, the agility required. Like, I have not practiced that skill, and I know, like I may have been able to do it at once, but I certainly can't today.

Michael: [00:46:00] Right.

Brad: And I looked at this dude next to me and he is like, oh yeah, I could still do that. Like, I could probably still do like three in a row. And I was just like, there, dude. No.

Michael: There's no way.

Brad: The answer is no.

, I'm not taking you to the hospital. It ain't gonna happen. I can see in you that you have not done this in a while and you're lying to yourself completely. And I think it's an important, if you realize that you lie to yourself a lot, which we do, because your brain's, I feel like your brain is a very lazy thing.

It wants to make it very easy and comfortable for you. Then you can decide you're like, hang on, wait. That part of me talking to me is not who I should be listening to at the moment.

Michael: Right.

Brad: Because I can get up and do something. I can get up and I can do one little thing that's gonna lead to a whole host of other follow on things, and it's like breaking the threshold of the door, but it's having those miniature challenges that test you, that remind you that, you know, I can't just go run three miles unless I've practiced.

Michael: Yeah.

Brad: Or it has been a, a [00:47:00] journey that I've been on for decades, then you may be able to do that. But there's always a threshold to, you know, how long you can hold onto something before it is faded from your ability set, if that makes sense.

Michael: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's very easy to fall into a trap of bravado, right? Of just like, oh yeah, I can do that. That's no problem. Right? But until you actually do it, it's another story. And, that same trap can also be a trap of laziness, of like, I don't need to do that. I can just take it easy today. I can sit on the couch instead of doing X, Y, or Z that I need to get done.

It's, your mind is a trap, right, like, like you said, you, it's something that, it's easy to follow as is, but you're, you tend to be better off when you challenge yourself, right, when you say, maybe that thought isn't correct. Maybe there's a better decision to be [00:48:00] made here. And so in that respect, I'm wondering what is one perhaps small, practical change that a dad can make right now that could kind of immediately improve their day-to-day life, or whether it's their presence at home or what they're trying to accomplish through their work or through even through physical fitness.

What, what's one change you'd recommend?

Brad: Well, and that's hard without, you know, specificity of the individual 'cause I, I do love like helping people grow and get better. One thing that I will say is like, if you want to be present, find a time and just make that your thing. For me, I do breakfast at the house. It's a sit down breakfast every morning.

I'm making eggs and then I'll get requests in from the kids. Sometimes I can accommodate, sometimes I can't.

Michael: Sure.

Brad: But I make that, that's kind of like, that's daddy's window of I will always be there and present at that time. And I've started to make workout that as well. That that one's a little bit more challenging because, you know, there's [00:49:00] ups and downs, there's days off, there's rest days, and then there's, you know, I gotta go for a run on some days. So that one's a little bit more challenging, but they do know that I'm gonna do that, and we, we have another thing that we do. It's right when they get home from school, I take them outside or mom takes them outside if I'm not here, but it's like, that's our, like, just go outside, be outside for an hour, hour and a half. Even in the cold days, on the hard days, we still go do that, and it's just a, we are trying to be present for them so that they can be physical or have the quiet peace of outdoors, but just off screens and just kind of away from the noise that, you know, propagates our society right now.

And

Michael: Sure.

Brad: I, I find that to be very rewarding for us. So, those are, those are some simple ways to, to be present. I would say self-reflection as a dad, and just as a man in general, [00:50:00] really like trying to look at yourself and say, what can I do better not only for me, but for my spouse? And I think what you find is I, I kind of refer to it as spirals, but you can get caught in an upward spiral the same as you can get caught in a downward spiral or neutral.

But if you're like, babe, why didn't you do this? You know, it's like, it's probably gonna start the downward spiral and it's very hard to like, recognize that and then neutralize it, but as a dad, like you have to try really hard to do that. Because, like I said, going back to the 50%, like you're 50% of that spiral,

Michael: Right, right.

Brad: And if you come home and do something in the positive that supports that, then you're gonna find that eventually, and it's not gonna be instantaneous, but eventually the positivity brings positivity. Don't look for instantaneous gratification, it's not gonna be there. But if you can continually bring positivity, I think you're gonna find nine [00:51:00] times out of 10 that your partner responds in, like kind and, and/ or that relationship kind of grows in the positive direction.

So, and I'm not saying I'm the, the, the epitome of positivity all the time, but it, I can recognize it in myself and then I talk to my wife about it, like, hey, you know, man, I'm being a grumpy crab here recently. Like, I don't know what's going on. And she's like, yeah, I know what's going on, and I can talk to you about it if you want. You're like, "ah, no."

Michael: That's right. Right. Yeah. No, I, I like that. I like that self-reflection is something that we all do it to some degree. Whether or not we're honest with ourselves when we do it is perhaps another story, right? But we also don't talk about it frequently. I think as men, as dads, it's not something like, oh, you know, I thought about how much of a grump I was last week.

You don't, you don't tell your, your buddies that, right? You don't tell your, your tribe, your group about that kind of thing. But it's okay to self-reflect. I think that's the part [00:52:00] that sometimes we forget, like, yeah, we need to do that, and we, it's okay to do that. And yeah, we don't, might not talk about it very often, but it's important, right?

Because it's hard to grow and learn and not repeat the same patterns and get caught in that downward spiral if you don't think about, you know, the choices that you made and the results of, of those choices. I also love the, that you do breakfast with your kids every morning. Like you've just, it's a simple task that like anybody can just start doing, right? Like even if it means getting up five minutes earlier so you can have that little bit extra time. Like if you do have a busy day, your kids, you know, only have so much time before they have to rush off the school. It is a practical, easy thing, and it shows, demonstrates to the kids that you're there, right?

It's that presence factor, and it's repeatable and it's something they can, [00:53:00] they can count on, right? And they know that every morning I'm gonna see dad, he is gonna, he's gonna feed me, but I also could talk at that time, right?

Like, we can have those conversations, especially as they start to get older and they, they start to, as they become teenagers and they start to drift off into these other activities and they spend more time with their friends and less time, less time at home, it's still a time for them that where you can check in, they can check in, right?

If there's something that they, they want to talk about or need, like knowing that you're there, that constant presence. It's not something that takes really any extra effort on your part. You're gonna be making breakfast anyways, right? Like, you, you gotta feed yourself. So it's like you're just setting up this time to like be there for them.

Whether or not they recognize that yet, they might not, And it might take time, but there might be that day where they're like, they're just down and they need to get something off their chest. And that's the time where it's like, okay, I know dad's there and either they say [00:54:00] it or you might spot something in them where it's like, hey.

Brad: You do, yeah, absolutely. You get the nerves before school because something happened the day before and they didn't tell you about it. Like you, you can see there's a lot of things that you can see there. And I'll say too, like, it's not like I'm making like some breakfast feast. I've got it dialed down to like, I make seven eggs in the morning. They're all scrambled. That's it.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah.

Brad: Occassionally, I'll be like, my daughter is like, I'm tired of eggs, can I get oatmeal? Okay, copy, I'll make oatmeal. Or I just say no, like, I don't have time to do that. And still make the timeline for today. And it's, you know, 10 minutes of work, 10 minutes of sitting down together that is forced. And then someti-, some days it's 30 minutes, some days it's 10, but it's there.

Michael: Yep.

Brad: And if you stack that, that's 70 minutes a week

Michael: Right.

Brad: at just 10 minutes of breakfast time with your kids.

Michael: Right.

Brad: And it, it adds up. You know, those, those things add up. So, so much over time that it's it truly is worth it if you have an opportunity to do some thing like that where you can [00:55:00] continually stack 10, 20 minutes together.

Michael: Absolutely. And then later on, I think you'll find, and I found this with my kids, is that they'll create those core memories from some of the most mundane activities you do, right?

Like it can be breakfast every day, and then one day something funny happens, somebody tells a joke or whatever. And like things just get, everybody starts laughing and they're crying 'cause they're laughing so hard and it's, and they'll be like 10 years later, they're 15 years old and they're like, do you remember that morning where we all were crying because we were laughing so hard? And it's like, those are the things they latch onto and remember, and it's those memories that, you know, as a parent of two teenagers now, it's like, those are the things that I, I really hang onto now. It's like when they bring up, oh, do you remember that time that this happened?

It's like, Yeah. We were just all sitting around the kitchen table or we were just all, you know, cleaning up or something. And it's just like the dumbest thing happened, but it's like, those are the fun memories. And it's like, that was all those times where maybe I was prepping [00:56:00] dinner, made it worth it because like I remember that, that one moment and that one moment, it's like, I've got that for the rest of my life and so do my kids, right? And now it's like, hopefully they're gonna repeat that as they become adults and they start doing that for their own families. So it's just.

Brad: And I think on that same note, it's easy to get hung up on the kind of commercialization of core memories. Like, but you don't need to go to Disneyland to have that.

Michael: Exactly.

Brad: You can go camping in the woods and play with sticks, and the kids remember that you were there playing with them,

Michael: Exactly.

Brad: having fun with them, disconnected from work, disconnected from your phone.

They remember that you were being loving to mom. They remember that you were building the fire or what, whatever it is. But it's the simplicity of the interaction that is really the most important thing. So, don't feel like, it's a, [00:57:00] a wealth-generated thing. It's not.

Michael: Right.

Brad: It's just as simple as being present and available to go play and have a little bit of fun.

Michael: Exactly. That's a great point. I appreciate you bringing that up. All right before we wrap up, I wanna get into the speed round with you. Five quick questions. Have nothing to do with anything, but we'll see where it goes. You ready for it.

Brad: All right. Let's do it.

Michael: Alright, what's the first kids show theme song that comes to mind?

Brad: First kids show theme song? Thundercats.

Michael: Thundercats? Wow.

Brad: Thunder. Thunder. Thundercats. It's been a while.

Michael: That's a good one. It's, yes, right. What was your very first job?

Brad: My first job? I swept the floors at a glass place. I don't know if it was a real job. And then my first real job, I worked at Hood's Gardens, and it became a, a, he, you know, the guy that worked there was Steve Hood and Tina Hood, their family, family friends to this day. I ended up there for about 10 years through early high [00:58:00] school and college time, and then ever so slightly post-college as well. Huge impact on me. Great leaders and just, you know, great people. So, and trusted me to do all kinds of crazy things that I probably had no business doing, but really fun opportunity.

Michael: That's great. Would you rather spend 24 hours with a toddler-sized T-Rex or a T-Rex-sized toddler?

Brad: T-Rex-sized toddler or a toddler-sized T-Rex? Gotta be, I mean, my, my son right now as a toddler would probably give me a hug that would crush me and then get upset and slam me down to the ground if he was that big. So I'm gonna have to go with a toddler-sized T-Rex.

Michael: That's a great answer. I, I don't think I've ever thought about if a T-Rex-sized toddler, the, yes, I've thought about the physical damage they could cause, but I never thought about them, like, give me a hug that would crush me to death and then, right, and slam me.

Brad: He loves giving squishy [00:59:00] hugs and snuggling. And so like, I can only imagine like him laying on you, like just snuggling into you like, "ah, you're crushing me."

Michael: That's awesome. What's your go-to karaoke song or the one you'd pick if, if you had to sing?

Brad: Oh man. I don't have a go-to song, but I did just buy the wife a karaoke thing here for the house to just have some fun and that we do that with the kids to, once again, just kind of, detach. We lived in Japan for three years, so, yeah. Go-to song? I don't know. I, I did

sing Picture with my wife the other day

that

Michael: Okay.

Brad: I think it's like Kid Rock and Sheryl Crow.

Michael: Yep. Yeah.

Brad: I'd say that's probably go-to for the duet. Not very good at it, but we do have fun doing it.

Michael: That's awesome. What's the weirdest thing you've ever carried around in your bag, briefcase, or pockets?

Brad: Oh man, probably not acceptable for any podcast things that I've carried around. So when you're [01:00:00] in a squadron, things show up in your bag mysteriously that you'd had no recollection of putting in there.

Michael: Sure.

Brad: And then you open your bag and you're like, oh my goodness, where did this thing come from? Yeah, I'll leave it to the imagination as to what, you know, 15 to 20 dudes in a squadron could sneak into your bag that you find in the jet when you're going flying. So, yeah, those are some wild moments, of course.

Michael: I bet. I bet. Alright, so before we wrap up, I'd love for listeners to know how to learn more from you. Like if someone wants to learn more about what you're building with SwingSesh, your approach to fitness and family, things like that, where can they, where should they go? Where should they check you out?

Brad: it's SwingSesh.com is our website. That's where you find all the products. But if you're just trying to figure out a little bit more about us, the easiest way is probably @TeamSwingSesh on Instagram. We post a lot of workouts on there, just kind of our [01:01:00] unfiltered backyard life, if you will.

And I do that very intentionally. We're not the, we're not trying to influence of the perfect variety. It's just what's going on in our backyard at the time. I, I do put music over it so you don't hear screaming kids and singing and random things or me grunting, you know, lifting. But,

Michael: Right.

Brad: I'm just trying to show that interaction a little bit more on the regular. I go through phases where I post a lot and then I don't post at all, but kids want to be wherever you are, at least for us, this has been a great, you know, tool to be present, play, and then also be inspired through play. And I, I can't reiterate that enough from a dad remembering the fun of play is hard sometimes, and they, they take you out there and they're like, go down the slide, and you're like, "okay, I'll go down the slide." The next thing you know, you're like, ok, that was actually fun. Like, let's, down the slide some more, know? But just that is so important for the rest of [01:02:00] your life is to play in everything that you do because there's moments of happiness, there's moments of stress, but those little nuggets, you just have to continue to pull those, you know, those nuggets of positivity out and latch onto 'em. Otherwise, you can get caught up in whatever it is that you're doing.

Michael: Absolutely. And we'll put links to both SwingSesh.com and TeamSwingSesh on Instagram in our show notes. Brad, I really appreciate this conversation. Thank you again for, for joining me. You've been so honest about the tension, the guilt, the ambition of balancing family, work, military life. It was just a really fun, interesting, strong conversation.

It's such a really good practical ideas that you brought to the table. So thank you again for being here and chatting with me today. I appreciate it.

Brad: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I like talking about this stuff, and, yeah, you made it easy.

Michael: Thank you. And finally, before you go, if you're a dad listening to this and you find yourself in between [01:03:00] navigating a season that feels different, head to gaptogig.com and subscribe to The Gap to Gig Newsletter. Comes out every Friday, and it's a quieter space to reflect on work, life, and what really matters right now.

If this conversation resonated, consider sending it to another dad who might need to hear it. Until next time, I'm Michael Jacobs. Thanks for showing up and listening to Gap to Gig.​