Erin Aldrich Shean on Redefining Success for the Season You’re In

Episode 4 with Erin Aldrich Shean
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[00:00:00] Speaker: So what I see a lot and what I'm guilty of as well, is you, you have all these stepping stones of where you wanna be, and I'll hit one and I'll be like, oh, this is, it feels good to be here. I wanna get to the next one. But that then requires constant grinding, and it's not always healthy.

[00:00:28] Michael: Welcome to Gap to Gig, the show for dads reimagining how work fits into life, not the other way around. It's where we talk about what comes next, how to make sense of the in-between and who we become in the process.

[00:00:38] I'm your host, Michael Jacobs, and today's guest is Erin Aldrich Sheen, a former Olympic and professional athlete competing at the highest levels across two sports. Now she's a career coach who helps people build careers that truly matter through her LAND method system. Whether you're a dad looking to restart your work life, pivot into something new, or simply find more alignment between what you do and who you are at home, Erin brings a unique perspective. Her journey from the Olympics to corporate strategy rooms to guiding others through transitions gives her insights that any dad in transition can learn from. Erin, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.

[00:01:09] Erin: Thank you so much, Michael. Really good to be here.

[00:01:12] Michael: Thank you. To kick things off, I'd love to hear about your personal transition from the field and court to the office. You've been at the top of the athletic world, not many people make it to the Olympics. You've made your way into business and coaching. For the dads listening who might be facing big shifts, whether stepping back into work after time out or trying to integrate fatherhood with career change, can you share how you experienced that identity transition yourself and what you discovered early on that might help someone in that place.

[00:01:42] Erin: Yeah. My story is somewhat unique in that I, when I was six years old, I told my parents that I wanted to be an Olympian one day. Not often that six year olds make that statement to their parents. So my parents, of course, really didn't take me too seriously thinking, what does a 6-year-old know?

[00:02:00] But...

[00:02:01] Michael: Right.

[00:02:02] Erin: I remember watching the 1984 Olympics and the opening ceremonies to the Los Angeles Olympics and thinking that was just something so amazing and I had to do it one day. And so that's when I told my parents that I wanted to be an Olympian, and it was really chasing that dream for, gosh, how many years? Sixteen years? Straight. And so that's a long time to chase one goal, but I was really fortunate to find what I wanted to do and be in that first chapter of life in that season of life. And...

[00:02:39] Michael: Right.

[00:02:40] Erin: I think it was a little bit challenging because I felt that since I found that, the it thing so early on in my career when I was so young that it would be that easy to find out what I wanted to do in the next chapter of life after I ended up retiring, and it was all but easy. Much easier to find the first thing than to find the second thing that I wanted to do. So I made so many mistakes along the way. I feel I tried out so many different careers and did things that I thought I needed to be doing and that I thought I should be doing. But that just weren't right, weren't the right fit.

[00:03:19] So I've been through two or three major pivots in my career, and it wasn't until the most recent pivot where I felt at home, again, very similar to what it was to feel like I knew that I wanted to go to the Olympics. That's how I felt when I found my most recent career shift. And I think I'm, I think I'm home now.

[00:03:42] Michael: Excellent. That's great. How did you teach yourself to reinvent yourself, essentially. Like how do you go from the top of the athletic world to navigating a career? Was there like a mindset shift that you went through, or was it just experience of just keep putting yourself out there and figuring out what resonated with you?

[00:04:06] Erin: Yeah. It's a good question. I, again, I feel like the first one came so easy to me to figure out what I wanted to do in the first part of my life that it was just such a shock when I thought, okay, that was easy. Now, the second part is gonna be easy. And so it was a real trial and error, I feel like for me, because I didn't do a very good job of going through that true soul searching period in my life to understand what it was that truly fulfilled me. I went for more of what was extrinsically motivating for me, and trying to climb the ladder, make more money. And I felt like that would be satisfying for me. And it, it really resonated with the competitive part of my background, but when it really came down to it, it was just such a, those were such fleeting feelings and it, it took me probably about 10 years in corporate America, post athletic career, retirement, to really wake up one day and be like, wait a minute. I don't think this is it. And that was the moment that I actually let my guard down, got rid of the ego, and hired a coach to try to help me figure that out.

[00:05:39] All along I thought I accomplished great things in the first part of my career.

[00:05:44] Michael: Right.

[00:05:45] Erin: I should be able to do it on my own. Thinking I could figure this out on my own. I could do this on my own. And it, really did, was like an eye-opening experience when I realized I don't know that I can do this on my own. I need to reach out for help.

[00:06:00] Michael: Absolutely.

[00:06:01] Erin: So, yeah.

[00:06:01] Michael: Yeah. I think that resonates with a lot of dads of trying to, we feel like we're figuring out on our own,

[00:06:08] Erin: Yeah.

[00:06:08] Michael: but there's a lot of confusion. There's a lot of self-doubt. We wanna take the next step, but it's often, a lot of dads I speak with, they feel like they're flying blind, right?

[00:06:21] They just, they may have, they know what they wanna chase after, but they don't know how to reach that goal. They don't realize that help is out there, that they don't have to do it all on their own. You mentioned you brought on a coach and that was a big game changer for you.

[00:06:43] Why is it so important do you think for people to learn from others when it comes to finding work that's meaningful for them?

[00:06:52] Erin: Because I think the process of what I do as a coach is really powerful for others, and my coach that I hired for myself was so powerful for me because we just can't, we can't ask ourselves questions and answer them as, as well as someone else can ask us and we can have a more of a two way conversation. Additionally, I think the biggest kind of eyeopening, aha moment for me where the light bulb really came on was, as I had mentioned before, I thought that I had accomplished these great things in my athletic career, and therefore I should be able to accomplish these great things in my career. But what I didn't really, the piece that I didn't really put together was that I accomplished those great things with a coach. Right? It was, I didn't make an Olympic team without a coach,

[00:07:48] Michael: Right.

[00:07:49] Erin: And, I had happened to forget about that which is like a huge piece of the puzzle. Like I didn't say I wanna make an Olympic team and then do it all on my own.

[00:07:59] I had a coach there to talk me through mindset challenges when I was going through slumps. I had coaches there that were going through the process of goal setting with me. I had a coach that was talking with me about nutrition and what it is that I needed to do for my body to get there. I had a coach that was there every day giving me workouts that would build upon each other so that I could accomplish making an Olympic team. You don't go through major career changes without someone there to support you and to hold you accountable and to be strategic with you. Every major thing that you do in your life needs to be done really with someone else there supporting you and that's what I had forgotten about until it was the time that I actually hired. I gave up doing it on my own and hired a coach and realized, wow, like this is something that I had completely ignored before. I didn't make the Olympic team on my own.

[00:08:58] Michael: That. I love that. It's such a powerful point of you're not in this alone. It doesn't matter whether you're chasing Olympic glory or raising a family like

[00:09:09] Erin: Right.

[00:09:09] Michael: you're not at it alone. You could be a single dad, you could be a married dad. You could be a dad of any sort of one children or multiple children, but you could do everything you think you can do to be a dad, but you're not, you can't do it by yourself like you have to, in order to achieve the goals you wanna achieve, achieve the balance you want in life, you need to lean on others for their support, for their expertise. That is why you have coaches.

[00:09:37] That's why you have teachers. You're, you have to constantly learn if you wanna be the dad that you wanna be, if you wanna be the person that you wanna be. I hadn't thought about you had coaches to help you achieve in competitive sports, but you also have coaches in life, right?

[00:09:56] Erin: Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:57] Michael: Some are professional coaches, some might just be people that are close to you that are, that have had experiences you haven't had before that they can guide you through what to expect and what that process is, so that's such a really important point. I think that, I think it is us for dads it makes a lot of sense to pay attention to that. Like you're not in this alone. There are people out there to help you and if it's, whether you're trying to achieve something in sports, you're trying to achieve something in your career, or you just wanna be a better dad, you have to allow others to help you.

[00:10:32] Erin: So important, and I tell people this all the time. I've never met an Olympic athlete that has made it to the Olympics without a coach, right? And I think anything major in life, small things too, but, anything major in life, anything, you know, truly outstanding that you want to accomplish, it really, you really need the support and the strategy and the accountability

[00:11:03] Michael: Right.

[00:11:03] Erin: by someone else being there to walk with you.

[00:11:06] Michael: Absolutely. So I wanna expand on this idea of you allow others to, to help you, to coach you. For parents that are trying to redefine where they are in their lives, for you, you mentioned going from the Olympics to switching to a professional career, that finding what is next for you can be challenging, right?

[00:11:38] Something that is satisfying to you. When you're moving from one big chapter to another, one ends, you're going into something new, whether that's career transition or you're welcoming a child into the world, whatever it may be. How do you help people navigate that?

[00:11:56] Erin: From a career standpoint. First of all, we always start with clarity. It's really a waste of time to go into career coaching or wanting to make a career pivot or any kind of a significant transition.

[00:12:13] And then to skip over the clarity piece, so the name of my program is LAND. The acronym stands for learn, align, network, and deliver, and that takes you through the entire process. If you take the L off, it's just, and, right? It's.

[00:12:31] Michael: Yeah.

[00:12:31] Erin: The L is a pretty important piece of the whole acronym because that is the clarity piece. That is what we have to start with. And even if or you think you know what it is that you wanna do next, we still start with with the L.

[00:12:43] We still start with the clarity piece just to confirm and ensure before we go on to the rest of it.

[00:12:50] Michael: Yeah.

[00:12:50] Erin: We might get through the clarity piece a lot faster if you already have a real clear idea of what you want, but particularly for those that are just I'm not totally sure, I always start with the clarity piece.

[00:13:04] I have tools that I've created to help my clients find more clarity in what it is that they want to do, and I typically work off of the Ikigai method. That's one of the main tools that I use. If you're not familiar with Ikigai, it's really what is it that you are good at? What is it that you love to do? What is it that the world needs and what can you get paid for? Aligning all of those to find that sweet spot with what your career should be. So that's really where I start, when it comes when I work with anyone, because without real clarity on that piece, it makes it hard to align

[00:13:47] Michael: Right.

[00:13:47] Erin: your career towards it and then to network towards it, and then to interview and land a role.

[00:13:53] Michael: Right.

[00:13:55] Erin: So, that's the process.

[00:13:56] Michael: And when you say clarity, are you talking just clarity in the type of work they wanna do or their lives overall? Like work

[00:14:07] Erin: Right.

[00:14:08] Michael: is just one part of your life, particularly if you're a parent. So can you kind of just elaborate a bit on when you say learn, like what is it that they're trying to clarify?

[00:14:22] Erin: Yeah. That we dig deep into what their values are, what their non-negotiables are that they want in their life and their career. I have a series of questions that I ask them that really kind of get to the bottom of what drives them, what their values are. Where all of that aligns and that is what I have a tool called The Career Compass that asks a standard set of questions at the beginning, and once those questions have been asked, it then starts to ask the client questions that are adaptive, right? They'll answer a question, and then based on that question, it'll just dig a little bit further and further. So this is a tool that I created myself, that I programmed and it seems to work really well with my clients. Then at the end when they've answered what values they have and what it is that really was the favorite part they've had of their past jobs. What was their least favorite part? What what do they feel like they're really good at? What do they not feel like they're good at? They answer a series of questions like that, and then it starts to understand, okay, these are some roles and some jobs that might be a really good fit for you based on that information. It might spit out five roles, and then it'll say which of these five resonate with you the most. And then it'll narrow it down to three, and then it'll dig deeper into those three, and then it'll start to make sense to you.

[00:15:51] Okay, that really resonates with me. Let's go down this path. And then it, it will take it as far as you want it to take it, but it'll start to give you a target list of companies and all of those things. So it really takes you from soup to nuts in the clarity process

[00:16:10] Michael: Yep.

[00:16:10] Erin: using all the information that it needs to gather from.

[00:16:15] Michael: That sounds like a very impactful method, very detailed method to really hone in on what's important to you.

[00:16:23] Erin: Yeah.

[00:16:24] Michael: And speaking of importance, you mentioned values, right? What do you value in trying to figure out what your next career move is? I'm curious, to me, values leads to meaningful work or can lead to work that is meaningful to you.

[00:16:41] A lot of people have jobs that maybe they're not so happy at. Maybe it, maybe it aligns with their values, maybe it doesn't, but it's not something that is, they find meaningful. It's not something they have a lot of purpose behind. How do you navigate helping people find the jobs that mean something to them to find the work that means something to them.

[00:17:05] Erin: Yeah, so, first of all, and this answer may not be, may not, be the answer that everyone wants to hear, but we all have different situations, right? So every client that I have, I look at their particular situation, and what I do as a coach is not cookie cutter. There are certain pieces, that's why I call my company Ascension Coaching and Consulting, because there's the coaching aspect of what is it, what is it that you want in your life and in your career? What really fulfills you? What are you passionate about? What are your values? All those things and working all that stuff out. But there are also the people that are just like, I need to get food on my table.

[00:17:48] Michael: Yep.

[00:17:50] Erin: I can't do exactly what it is that I want. And I can talk a little bit more about that too, because I believe that anything that you're passionate about can be monetized. Like you can turn anything that you really want into a monetizable model, right?

[00:18:05] Michael: Sure.

[00:18:06] Erin: But, for just the basics, there are some people that just need food on their table.

[00:18:10] Michael: Right.

[00:18:11] Erin: Maybe they're a single parent, a single dad, and they just need to support their kids, so for those particular situations, we really just need to find something.

[00:18:20] Sometimes good enough is good enough.

[00:18:22] Michael: Right.

[00:18:23] Erin: We need to find something that will just accomplish what it is that they need to accomplish by just making ends meet. And then to accomplish the passion and the fulfillment piece in their life, maybe we can find something to volunteer for or some way to really massage that part and that need

[00:18:43] Michael: Yeah.

[00:18:44] Erin: inside of them. But I, have to take every client for what it is that they need and want and what's feasible.

[00:18:54] Michael: Right.

[00:18:54] Erin: Ultimately, we would all love to be going to work every day in something that we absolutely love.

[00:18:59] Michael: Right.

[00:19:00] Erin: But sometimes that's not possible. Sometimes, you know, maybe you don't have the runway to just quit your job or come straight into starting your own business because it's gonna take you a year or two to get started or start bringing in enough money to make ends meet.

[00:19:17] And so

[00:19:17] Michael: Right,

[00:19:18] Erin: you've got to figure out something else to do in parallel. Which I have a lot of times, I have a lot of clients that are like, I really wanna start my own business, but I can't just go cold turkey and quit my job and start another business because I need that income. And so we really work together with let's find you a job that will work, right, for now, and then in parallel paths, we'll figure out how we can start this other business, and then hopefully one day, you're able to get ramped up in this thing that you really want to do and really love to do,

[00:19:51] Michael: Yeah.

[00:19:51] Erin: and then you can drop that other job, you know?

[00:19:53] Michael: Right.

[00:19:54] Erin: So it's really dependent upon everyone's different particular situation.

[00:19:58] Michael: Makes total sense. I appreciate the candor of sometimes you just have to take the job to make ends meet, but you can supplement that with something that you are passionate about or something that aligns better with your values and you can do both. So it's not necessarily an either or thing.

[00:20:19] And you can still find that balance between work, what you're interested in, what your values are, and still being present and active at home. I'm curious, like the balance. You're a mother so you have, obviously you have children and you balance your career and for a lot of dads finding meaningful work and balancing that with being an active, present dad can be challenging.

[00:20:49] Some people lean more on the work side and they put in a lot of time at work and they don't necessarily show up as much as they want to for their family or vice versa, where they spend so much time with their family that they might be neglecting work and might be struggling to, to get ahead.

[00:21:07] How do you balance meaningful work with being a parent?

[00:21:13] Erin: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question because I don't think I'm the best at balance all the time. I do really try, but being a business owner and someone who's in the scale stage of owning a business, it's not always easy, right? And my, I am really fortunate to have a very supportive husband, and I realize that is not the case with all relationships, but there are really gonna be times and seasons of life in your career where you're grinding, especially when you're trying to start a business or really climb the ladder and get the flywheel going. And I think it just comes down to communication with your spouse, significant other, other caretaker if you're single to really set expectations of this, in this season of life, I am going to be grinding.

[00:22:08] It's not going to be like that all the time, but in this season it is. And, and then you have to be honest and clear with yourself that when you do get to that place that you've, that goal that you've set for yourself, which hopefully you do, that you know when to wind down a bit, right?

[00:22:34] Michael: Yeah.

[00:22:34] Erin: So, what I see a lot, and what I'm guilty of as well, is you have all these stepping stones of where you wanna be, and I'll hit one and I'll be like, oh, this is, it feels good to be here. I wanna get to the next one. But that then requires constant grinding, and it's not always healthy.

[00:22:56] Michael: Right.

[00:22:57] Erin: So, it's really like that, what I call like a come to Jesus with yourself of at what point is what I've done good enough. If I, let's say you hit a half million in revenue in your business, is that gonna be okay? And if so, you need to prepare yourself mentally that when you get to that point, you're gonna be okay and you're gonna be able to start delegating and stepping away a bit. You've put in the time and the energy and the grind and the determination and grit. Now it's time to be more present with your family.

[00:23:36] Michael: Right. And if someone was afraid to slow down, 'cause maybe they're, they feel it's gonna hurt their career, maybe they're trying to, like, how do they navigate that? Like it is okay to slow down sometimes. But again, that is that balance, right? Like how do you, if you are afraid to slow down, what can you do?

[00:23:58] Erin: I think about my husband in this way and he's not a business owner. I think it's a little bit sometimes harder for business owners because it's like, if we don't work and we don't continue to produce, we don't make money, right?

[00:24:10] Michael: Right?

[00:24:11] Erin: And it's a little bit different with a W2 when you're going back to work.

[00:24:15] And I think of my husband in this way. Whenever he starts a new job, or this has just historically been the way that it is. Whenever he has started a new role in the past, he is grinding, he is putting in far more hours than a typical nine to five. And I think I've gotten the hang of it now, but the first few times that it was this way, I was oh my gosh, when are you gonna slow down?

[00:24:41] Like you need to be present for your family. Like we've, we can't do this forever. But what I've noticed historically with him is that he grinds for about a year or two, and then he gets really good at what he does. And he's got the buy-in of all the people that he works with. He gets really good also at delegating, and his hours significantly drop after like those first couple years.

[00:25:07] So he's put in all the time and the energy and all that. And then he learns to work smarter, not harder,

[00:25:14] Michael: Yep.

[00:25:14] Erin: and still get the same output.

[00:25:16] Michael: Right.

[00:25:19] Erin: So, I think it's probably a bit of coaching around that. And in order to do that though, you have to be really good at developing relationships and getting other people that you work with on board with you.

[00:25:31] Michael: Yeah.

[00:25:33] That's a great point about relationships because whether you're running your own company or you're working for a, on a W2 working for another company, you again, just like we were talking about before, you have to rely on others. You can't do everything yourself, and it's critically important to have those relationships.

[00:25:55] And I, the other point I find really interesting is earlier you'd mentioned seasons of life, right? And so I, it seems like there's a correlation, like in the example you gave of your husband of these seasons of work,

[00:26:10] Erin: Yep.

[00:26:10] Michael: where the first year or two at a job is one season. Right, and that's the tougher, maybe the winter season.

[00:26:15] But then things start to open up as you, as the weather starts to improve. Or in his case, as he starts to delegate out some work figures, out systems that make it efficient, he then finds, re-finds better balance between his work and other things that are important to him. So I just find it interesting that seasons of life can be interpreted a couple of, or many, different ways here in terms of balancing your career, your home life, and whatever else may be of importance to you.

[00:26:48] Erin: Yeah, I love that. I think you're so right when it's seasons of life and also seasons of your jobs and your career,

[00:26:56] Michael: Right.

[00:26:57] Erin: And I think I've, what I've noticed with my husband is that he tends to stay in that cruise control season for, I don't know, I would say two or three years,

[00:27:10] Michael: Sure.

[00:27:10] Erin: and then he starts to get antsy again. To want to find the grind because when you speak about growth mindset, if it's starting to get too easy, there's no growth in that. And there are also seasons, right, where it might be better to go back into the winter and, and work a bit harder and get another jolt of growth.

[00:27:37] Michael: Yeah, absolutely. It feels like in that case it's always seeking a new challenge and once you feel like you've accomplished that challenge, what's next? Right? And so it's finding that next thing. You know, I'm curious, you had mentioned earlier when you were. Training for the Olympics and training for sports, that there was this aspect of mental training, right?

[00:28:02] There was mindset training and things like that. Is there any mental training that you use with your clients to help them overcome some of their concerns, some of their hesitations or self-doubt or burnout in trying to find the right career for them?

[00:28:17] Erin: Yeah, this is, another area where I take it client by client. Some clients might be having trouble for one reason, some clients for another. So I really assess. What kind of a mindset shift we need to work on. Maybe some are really struggling with not knowing how to interview, or there's so many different types of struggle that I really take the client on a client by client basis and dig a little bit deeper to understand what the deeper challenge is there with their mindset, and then we go from there. So, it's hard to answer the question in a, a blanket matter of fact way,

[00:29:08] Michael: Right.

[00:29:09] Erin: but it really is a case by case basis on

[00:29:12] Michael: Right,

[00:29:13] Erin: what kind of a mindset shift needs to happen.

[00:29:16] Michael: Right. That makes sense. It's mindset is personal and each person comes at it from a different angle and may have different experiences to, to fall back on or, not. And, but there is this mental aspect that needs to be addressed or utilized in order to find the right career path, I presume.

[00:29:40] Erin: Right.

[00:29:41] Michael: Right?

[00:29:41] It's not just a, okay, that job looks great. No, you have to go through a process to, to find the right career for you. In order to do that, you need to address what makes sense for you. What, again, aligning back to your values and finding that alignment, as you say between what you're seeking and what's available and how do you find the right career move for you.

[00:30:06] Erin: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:30:08] Michael: How do you, or once someone lands in the right role, so you've, they've gone through the LAND method, they've found the right role for them, and they start in this new career space. What can they do to stay aligned and avoid slipping back into old habits or autopilot, so they continue to grow within their role?

[00:30:34] Erin: Yeah. That's a really tough question but I, what I will say is when I coach my clients, this is going off topic a bit, but the first thing that I tell them is the moment that you land, you have got to keep networking. I know that's not really answering your question about alignment, but I think the most important part to continue to do, or to start doing if you still haven't done it, is you've got to network and you've got to... All those people that you've called upon, hopefully, when you've been in the process of trying to land a job and trying to get your network warmer again during this process, all of those people have done you a favor. And so now it's time to pay it forward and to start to nurture your network and warm it up continually, right? And I think that will help you to also stay in alignment because you will constantly be having conversations with people on how they're doing, what it is that you can do to help them. And it's just a nature of having those conversations that's gonna help you to understand if you're in the right place as well,

[00:31:46] Michael: Right.

[00:31:47] Erin: but also just paying it forward from what was done to help you get there.

[00:31:52] Michael: Right,

[00:31:52] Erin: And now what can you do to be a servant leader to others who may need your help at this time? There's always like a give and take with networking and

[00:32:01] Michael: sure.

[00:32:03] Erin: The statistic is that 90 or 85 to 95% of jobs are found through networking. So I think that's the biggest piece that people lose sight of leading up to a layoff or time off, and then reentering the workforce.

[00:32:19] They haven't done a very good job of, nurturing their network and keeping it warm, and so I think that's like the number one thing to do after landing a job is to just keep that process up. Keep having those conversations, keep asking what it is that you can do for others, and I think that will subsequently help you to stay in alignment too, just by having conversations.

[00:32:44] Michael: Right. And are there any forms of networking or types of networking that you feel are most effective as you transition in career?

[00:32:56] Erin: Yeah, so we are in a virtual world, right? There are a few different ways, but, I obviously, I try to make an intentional effort when I'm just out and about at events trying to understand what really makes other people tick. That's something that I'm really interested in anyway, like what is, what is their background? What is their history? I wanna know more about them. And then I'm always trying to think like how I can be a connector with those people. And then the same is true really through LinkedIn. LinkedIn is such a huge network these days.

[00:33:40] Michael: Right.

[00:33:41] Erin: In fact, I think that's how I found you in a roundabout way,

[00:33:44] Michael: right.

[00:33:44] Erin: but, but yeah I tell my clients like, when you land a job, do not stop with the networking piece. Like it's your

[00:33:53] Michael: Yeah.

[00:33:53] Erin: goal to have one random conversation a week that is on your calendar just to keep up the process. Who's one person in your network that you haven't talked to in a while? It would be good to catch up with, put one of those 15 minute conversations on your calendar every week. That way by the end of the year, you've got, you've talked to 52 people and caught up with

[00:34:17] Michael: Right, right.

[00:34:17] Erin: them.

[00:34:19] Michael: Right, and you stay top of mind with them. You're more, there's more of a recency bias there that so they do see something that might be of benefit to you, they'll think of you because you had

[00:34:29] Erin: of course

[00:34:29] Michael: recently reached out. Yeah. That makes a ton of sense.

[00:34:33] Erin: Yeah, I think that LinkedIn is huge.

[00:34:35] Michael: Yeah, absolutely. On the flip side of that, aside from just stopping networking altogether, are there any common mistakes that we're making in networking right now?

[00:34:47] Erin: Yeah, going into a networking call and asking them if they have any jobs or if they know of any jobs. I think your first goal is to reconnect with that person on a deeper level.

[00:35:00] Michael: Yep.

[00:35:00] Erin: Be curious about them, be curious about what's going on in their world. The conversation will naturally go there.

[00:35:08] Like they'll ask about you, and in that time you can be like, yeah it's been really tough. I've been away from work for a while. I've been doing X, Y, Z. I'm now starting to get my feet wet again and go back into the work world. I'm thinking this is what I wanna do.

[00:35:26] I've done a lot of reflection on what it is that I wanna do. I typically have my clients put together a marketing plan, which I have a tool that will help them build one of those very quickly and easily, but it just outlines what is their professional summary, their branding statement the types of industries they're interested in.

[00:35:45] Are they interested in remote, hybrid, on site work? The target list of companies that they're interested in. Where? What geographical locations? It just outlines and lays all this out in a one sheeter so that if they do get into those conversations and the conversation goes there, they can be like, I'd love to share this with you and get any insight or feedback that you might have. That's a perfect opportunity to get what it is that you're looking to accomplish out of the conversation. But the worst thing I think someone can do is to hop on a call with somebody that they haven't talked to in a really long time and just be like, Hey, yeah, I just wanted to talk to you and see if you might know of any jobs for me. It's just very impersonal and you will probably never get another acceptance of a zoom call for 15 minutes from them ever again.

[00:36:37] Michael: Right, right.

[00:36:38] Erin: It's also really important to, it's a two-way street. Sometimes, in some seasons of life and career, we might need more, and in some seasons of life and career, we might be able to give more.

[00:36:52] Michael: Right.

[00:36:52] Erin: And so the goal is to give as much or more than you're ever asking for.

[00:36:57] Michael: Yeah.

[00:36:58] Erin: That's why it's good to proactively reach out to people even when you don't need anything and say, hey, I was just thinking about you. Wanted to check in. Is there anything that I can do for you?

[00:37:09] Michael: Yeah.

[00:37:10] Erin: It was just you were on my mind today.

[00:37:12] Michael: Right.

[00:37:13] Erin: That will go such a far way.

[00:37:15] Michael: Right. Absolutely. Don't lead with the ask. Don't

[00:37:18] Erin: no,

[00:37:18] Michael: ask more than you are willing to give or able to give. Give some more and then give some more again and let the conversation eventually lead itself to where your ask will be addressed without you maybe having asked directly

[00:37:34] Erin: yeah.

[00:37:34] Michael: initially.

[00:37:35] Yeah.

[00:37:36] Erin: Exactly.

[00:37:37] Michael: So, that's so important. So, I got one more question for you before we jump into the speed round. I'm curious, how would you encourage people that to keep evolving their definition of meaningful work as life and family needs change? I know we talk about this, these seasons of life, but like how do you... you coach a lot of clients in finding the right careers for them and going through that change, how can they continue to evolve their definition of meaningful work and balancing that with family?

[00:38:08] Erin: Yeah. So, I, I know that this is probably uncomfortable, or not a normal thing for, everyone, but I always encourage my clients once a year, if not once a year, once every two years, to go take a solo weekend someplace that is relaxing and calm and they can just sit with themselves for 48 hours

[00:38:33] Michael: Yep.

[00:38:33] Erin: just to really get an idea and to do some thinking about this path that I've taken in the last year or two. Is it, has it been good for me? What's been good? What's been bad? What do I wanna change? What's not quite feeling in alignment?

[00:38:48] Michael: Yep.

[00:38:50] Erin: I think that time spent with yourself, especially if you can go like to some remote place and there are a lot of wellness centers that I think are great and they just allow you to sit with yourself and that can be some of the most painful time to spend,

[00:39:05] Michael: Right.

[00:39:06] Erin: but it's so valuable.

[00:39:07] Michael: Yeah.

[00:39:08] Erin: So that you know whether you're on the right track, and I think you'll be able to come up with a lot of good stuff in those 48 hours.

[00:39:16] Michael: That's great advice. I love that because it's, you're saying yes, you are taking care of what you have to at work, you're taking care of what you have to at home, but you can't forget to take care of yourself. And you have to reflect back on what's working, what's not, what do I wanna achieve next?

[00:39:33] Because you can't get, you can't accomplish the things you wanna accomplish if you forget about yourself.

[00:39:40] Erin: Absolutely. If you don't take care of yourself, you're not gonna be any help to anyone else, really.

[00:39:46] Michael: Right. Yep.

[00:39:47] Erin: I know that we're supposed to be that you are second or third, but ultimately, if I'm not a happy person and I'm not taking care of myself, I am not of very much use to my husband or my children,

[00:40:00] Michael: Right. Yep.

[00:40:02] Erin: So it's very, very important. Doesn't mean that you have to be selfish, but it does mean that you need to take care of yourself.

[00:40:09] Michael: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, so I'm gonna flip the script here. I wanna go into the speed round where got five questions, have absolutely nothing to do with anything, but we'll have some fun with it and see what comes to mind for you.

[00:40:24] First question, what's the first kids show theme song that comes to mind?

[00:40:33] Erin: Okay. This is not a theme show song, but it's the first thing that came to my mind, so I'm gonna say it.

[00:40:38] Michael: Go for it.

[00:40:39] Erin: Give me a break. Give me a break. Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar.

[00:40:42] Michael: Love it.

[00:40:45] Erin: Seems kiddie. I dunno. That's the first thing that came to my head.

[00:40:48] Michael: Yes. Love it.

[00:40:49] Erin: So commercial, I guess.

[00:40:51] Michael: Yeah. Commercial, but I'm sure most kids know that song. That's awesome.

[00:40:55] Erin: Most kids my age.

[00:40:58] Michael: Yeah, might as well. No, I definitely can appreciate that answer. What was your very first job?

[00:41:05] Erin: Oh goodness. My first paid like real job that I had to be responsible for was probably a retail salesperson in a little boutique that was downstairs from my apartment. This is when I was still training. I wanted some sort of work experience, but I couldn't do like a big girl job, so I had to do something that would just bring in a little money and give me some responsibility.

[00:41:31] Michael: Sure. Would you rather spend 24 hours with a toddler sized T-Rex or a T-Rex sized toddler?

[00:41:40] Erin: I, probably a toddler sized T-Rex. I feel like that would be really cute and maybe not so controlling and outrageous. I think of my son, my youngest son as my T-Rex sized toddler, and that would be scary.

[00:42:02] Michael: That's a great point. What's your go-to karaoke song?

[00:42:06] Erin: Oh, that is, I will survive by Gloria Gaynor.

[00:42:09] Michael: Excellent. Good choice. Yep.

[00:42:11] Alright, what's the weirdest thing you've ever carried around in your bag, briefcase, or pockets?

[00:42:21] Erin: It, maybe poop bags for my dog. I don't know. I guess that's not super weird, but it, it just doesn't seem normal.

[00:42:34] Michael: Right

[00:42:34] Erin: Yeah. Right. Yeah, I guess most people have dogs, but, but yeah I, can't think of anything really strange. I guess I'm really boring other than just having poop bags always, they always in my purse so that when, if ever we take the dog out, we'll be prepared.

[00:42:53] Michael: Always prepared. Love it.

[00:42:54] Erin: Yes.

[00:42:55] Michael: That's great. Erin, thank you so much for being here. This was such an insightful conversation. I think you gave a lot of really interesting, maybe not common, tips and ideas of how you can approach finding the right job for you, which I think is super interesting, super insightful. For anyone who wants to go deeper on the LAND method or take the next step toward building a career that really fits, where can they find you or learn more?

[00:43:24] Erin: The website is ascensioncoaching.co. It's dot co not dot com. You can email me at info@ascensioncoaching.co. Instagram is @AscensionCoaching. Pretty easy.

[00:43:40] Michael: Great.

[00:43:41] Erin: Connect with me on LinkedIn, which is Erin dash Shean (S-H-E-A-N) dash OLY, which is the acronym for Olympian now. We have our own acronym, so yeah, a few different ways that you can connect, but happy to chat further with anyone who's in that transition, looking to get back into the work world or make a pivot or some sort of a transition.

[00:44:06] That's what I do all day every day.

[00:44:09] Michael: Awesome. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you again, Erin. I appreciate you coming on and talking to me today.

[00:44:15] Finally, if you're a dad listening to this and trying to figure out what comes next, maybe you're in between jobs, starting something new, or just looking for more meaning in your work, head to gaptogig.com and subscribe to the Gap to Gig newsletter.

[00:44:26] If you took something valuable from this episode, send it to a dad you think could also benefit. Until next time, I'm Michael Jacobs, and this is Gap to Gig, where we're building work that fits your life, not the other way around. ​