Jacob Stone on Reentering the Workforce and Bringing Your Whole Self to Work

Episode 3 Gap to Gig Podcast with Jacob Stone
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[00:00:00] Speaker: Those are things you're not gonna find on a resume. Those are just through conversations. So as far as the soft skill part, I would, and I tell people this, the soft skills are probably just as, if not in some cases more, important than what the technical skills could be. Because you can always train those up, you know?

[00:00:16] ​

[00:00:23] Michael: Welcome to Gap to Gig the show for Dads re-imagining how work fits into life, not the other way around. It's where we talk about what comes next, how to make sense of the in-between and who we become in the process. I'm your host, Michael Jacobs, and my guest today is Jacob Stone, an HR consultant and founder of Worq Tap, who spent more than a decade helping companies hire better and helping people land roles that fit their lives. He's also a dad of two, and he knows firsthand what it's like to balance building a career with raising a family. Jacob, welcome to the show. Glad to have you here.

[00:00:53] Jacob: Glad to be here.

[00:00:54] Michael: Appreciate it. You've spent years building HR systems that help companies hire smarter and run smoother. What pulled you toward that side of the work world?

[00:01:03] Jacob: So, I started off in staffing and recruiting and doing mostly direct-hire recruiting within the tech industry. And what I found throughout the many years I did that was that there was a constant disconnect between hiring managers and the candidates and then vice versa. And what I mean by that is that hiring teams or managers or whomever would post a role, and they would get flooded with hundreds of resumes and none of them would hit whatever skillset that they needed, and they weren't understanding how, maybe, what skills they were actually looking for. They would just Google like a generic whatever and put it in there. And so when I started really working with clients about their issues with why they can't find good candidates, what I found was that they didn't have an interview process set up at all.

[00:02:03] It was just like, we get a candidate, they talk to HR, and then they maybe talk to one of the hiring managers and then the director, and then we'll onboard 'em. And there was a lot of time in between each interview process. And so when I was working with my clients, I would tighten that up just naturally, so that way I had control, if you will, over the where I send my candidates and things like that.

[00:02:27] And so a lot of my clients found that there was huge value in that process part of it. So started Worq Tap with the hope to really bridge that gap between candidate hiring teams and then setting up that talent acquisition process.

[00:02:46] Michael: Interesting. So, you've been doing this for 10-plus years now, and when you first started, you weren't a dad. Now you're a dad of two. How has parenthood changed how you think about people, work, culture, and just trying to find that right fit?

[00:03:05] Jacob: Like most parents, when you're about to be a parent, you think, oh, you always look at other people raising their kids and thinking like, oh, I would never do that, or I would never allow my kid to do this, that, and the other thing. And how can they dare just let them jump off that thing and not say whatever, blah, blah, blah.

[00:03:24] Until you're in it. And the biggest part about parenthood, and bri-, and how it really helped me with the skills to then do what I do is the communication aspect and, what you can control. So it's really easy when you're not in it to look on the outside looking in, going, oh why don't you just do this?

[00:03:46] But until you're actually in it, and you have to actually show the patience of it, and learn to articulate certain issues, and essentially train and teach people what they don't know, it's the same thing when you're dealing with a five-year-old. When they're trying to, they don't know how to tie their shoe and they're getting frustrated .

[00:04:04] You gotta like really get, you gotta get pedantic with 'em and figure out like, here's the issue and chapter and verse it and figure out how to communicate.

[00:04:13] Michael: That's such an important point too, of you don't know what you know until you do it,

[00:04:18] Jacob: Yeah.

[00:04:18] Michael: right? And so it's easy to judge from the outside of being a dad of oh yeah, if I was a dad I can do this. But once you become a dad and you're trying to balance your work with your home life, with being a father, being present, it's a challenge that's unlike anything else. And it requires patience. It requires thought. But it's something that's doable. You do it every day, right? It's like you can accomplish that, but you don't know exactly what it's like until you do it. Is there something that you've learned from your kids that kind of shows up in your approach now through HR and leadership?

[00:05:01] Jacob: Yes. And it's gonna be one of these things where it's almost like a "duh." But when we're starting off our careers and when we're starting off working, we think we have all the time in the world, right? We think that if I just put in this time and do this and do that, then it'll all work out.

[00:05:18] And what happens is we tend to lose ourself either in our work, in our careers, and we don't make time for other things. And so one of the things that I have learned from my kids, especially my son who's five, is you gotta be goofy. You gotta just live in the moment. You gotta take the good with the bad, learn to laugh and, really under, and as a dad it's hard to go from work, the stresses of the day, shut that off, and then be present and be a dad and do all that.

[00:05:51] But one thing that I have learned with my, from my children is you gotta live in the moment. Don't bring that stuff home. Don't worry about what you can't control, and find the joys and the funniness. And even with all the hard times, you gotta find the challenge rewarding in some way, shape, or form.

[00:06:13] Even if it's "man, if I have to do one more Zoom meeting, I'm gonna gouge my eyes out." You gotta take that as let's make it at least fun.

[00:06:21] Michael: Yep. Love that positivity. It, it gets hard like when you are in a stressful position, whether it's at work or at home, like, you have to find something to keep you motivated, keep you moving forward with everything you want to accomplish. So having fun,

[00:06:37] Jacob: Yep.

[00:06:38] Michael: is, I love that. That's great. So I kinda wanna shift gears just a little bit here. And let's talk about dads reentering the workforce. A lot of them imagine HR is a sort of mysterious black box, right? They don't really know once they send in a resume or they see a job that's open, they don't really know what's going on behind the scenes. From your perspective, what's actually happening behind the scenes when a company's hiring?

[00:07:07] Jacob: So the, that is a, that is one of those questions that is the million dollar question of why I do what it, that's the problem I solve, right? That's what I do what I do. There's two parts to that. One, what's going on behind the scenes with, and it depends on the company and it depends on, culture is everything.

[00:07:31] How well are they organized? How much do they actually need this position that they have posted or whatever that is? Unfortunately, and I deal with this day in and day out with both my clients and then also with job seekers in and of themselves, is that they're posting jobs and they don't even know what they want.

[00:07:51] And so they're getting bombarded with, when I tell you on LinkedIn with, especially with the Easy Apply function, they're getting hundreds of applications per day. Per day. And what happens is and, a lot of the reason being is 'cause the job descriptions that these companies are posting are very generic.

[00:08:11] Michael: Right.

[00:08:13] Jacob: And so on the other side of that with on the candidate side with dads that are trying to re-, reenter the job force, understand that behind the scenes a lot of times with these companies is they're getting bombarded with resumes.

[00:08:29] They don't want to be hiring. I have found in my career that no one likes to hire and no one likes to go through the process of being hired.

[00:08:38] It is one of those like necessary evils that people feel.

[00:08:41] Michael: Yeah.

[00:08:43] Jacob: So, unfortunately, behind the scenes it's chaos. A lot of times it's just chaos.

[00:08:52] Michael: Yeah.

[00:08:53] Jacob: What dads that maybe have taken a gap time or they're looking to change careers or what have you, what they can expect, is especially if you're doing like easy applies on LinkedIn, do not be afraid to connect with people within that organization.

[00:09:10] So I'm applying to company X, Y, and Z for position R.

[00:09:18] Michael: Yep.

[00:09:18] Jacob: And I, I go on LinkedIn, and I see that the director of position R is John Smith. Don't be afraid to apply, do what you're gonna do and then connect with that, whoever that person is and you don't have to sell yourself.

[00:09:33] Just, "Hey, I am looking to connect, have a conversation and network with you." Something very generic like that. If you do that enough, and it's, unfortunately, it's a numbers game. When you're applying for places,

[00:09:46] Michael: Right.

[00:09:47] Jacob: I would say for every 10 of those that you send out, maybe 20. So about 20% of the time you'll get a connection back and then you just start a conversation.

[00:09:54] You're not trying to you, 'cause what you're trying to do is brand yourself, get recognized in this whole stack of resumes, if you will. So that, that's a couple things that you can do and what you can expect trying to get in there.

[00:10:09] Michael: So beyond just it, I guess to go back to the, to the question originally, you're saying that behind the scenes it's gonna be different per company. Usually chaotic..

[00:10:20] Um, so is anxiety ridden as applying for jobs can be, it's also they're feeling something

[00:10:30] Jacob: On the other side of that.

[00:10:31] Michael: Perhaps chaotic on the other side of it, but a good way to become known in that company is to connect with others and you might just, even just to get feedback on what they, what their culture's about, what they're looking for in, in their teammates. It can help be helpful to just reach out to people that on LinkedIn, quick introductory message, being interested in it. Those connections can be quite valuable. It's more of a long-run game. Is that, would you say that's true?

[00:11:06] Jacob: It is.

[00:11:07] Michael: Yeah.

[00:11:07] Jacob: It is. And the thing is that this is, you gotta put the humanness back in, into hiring. I think a lot of times companies and candidates like rely so heavily on AI, and we forget that there's, AI's a great tool to help format resumes to get ideas from, but at the end of the day, you're gonna be working with people, you're gonna have to have the human interaction, the connection. So, you might as well start with during the application process, how can I connect with an actual human at the company I want wanna work at.

[00:11:41] Michael: That's a great point.

[00:11:43] I think it's so easy, like you just said, it's so easy in this day and age with AI, but just in general with the volume of job openings and the volume of people that are applying these jobs, the one way to stand out is to be human. Show your human side. So I guess that kind of leads me to my next question of where do you see the biggest breakdowns between job seekers and hiring teams?

[00:12:12] Jacob: So the biggest in this, it's on the hiring team side, they put a lot of stock into a resume and they don't understand what the purpose of a resume is. So what I mean by that is a resume is a tool to spark the conversation. That's all it is. It's just something that I can look at that a hiring team or hiring manager can look at quickly and say, okay, does this, can I follow this person's career?

[00:12:43] Does it tell whatever story it needs to tell? Does it have certain qualifications? And can I see whatever potential I need? Is it worth having a conversation with this candidate? Yes or no. It should be that easy. Too often what happens is with hiring teams is they want chapter and verse of this that, and they use it as a checkbox. I need 10 of these mandatory things and they only check nine boxes, therefore pass.

[00:13:07] And you miss out on a lot of good candidates that way.

[00:13:10] Michael: Right,

[00:13:10] Jacob: And vice versa on the candidate side is a lot of people when you go into business school stuff, they always tell you "have your resume only down to one page. No one's printing these out anymore." You don't need one page. I wouldn't write a novel, like you don't need 50 pages, but it's okay, especially if you're a 20 year, 10 to 20 year, in 20 years in your career to have three pages. It's not that, not that hard. And the biggest thing is gonna be keywords 'cause, unfortunately, a lot of these, a lot of places are putting in their applicant tracking systems, there are, they're running it through AI and wanting buzzwords, certain keywords, because there is so many. So, that's probably the biggest challenge is that, is when, as, as soon as it comes to the resume part of it, which ones do we talk to, which ones do we don't? And on the candidate side is how do I make my resume attractive that it's gonna actually be flagged positively and not just tossed to the side.

[00:14:08] Michael: Right. And so then, that kinda goes back to you, you do as much as you can to match your resume to the system, but to set yourself apart then, it's building those relationships outside the system, connecting with others within the company to, in the hope that it will put your name, allow your name to stand out from the potentially hundreds or thousands of others who might be applying for the same position.

[00:14:36] Jacob: The other thing, and I wanna touch on that really quick. As far as with, with job seekers, you're like 10 times apt to get an interview and hired through someone that you know.

[00:14:52] Michael: Yep.

[00:14:52] Jacob: And it doesn't even have to be like your best friend or your cousin or your uncle. It could just be like a guy you had a conversation with one time and you guys were vibing together, had a good convo, and then, hey, they automatically want, generally speaking, are gonna put you at, on the head of that stack. So I think it's important for people that are either job seeking, looking to get back in the workforce, whatever, is to just connect with people. Even if it's not in, if it's on LinkedIn, if it's what, talk to 'em.

[00:15:21] Connect with them because that's how you're gonna end up getting your next gig.

[00:15:25] Michael: Right. Be human.

[00:15:26] Jacob: Be human.

[00:15:27] Michael: Yeah. And speaking of being human, you talk a lot about soft skills like adaptability, collaboration, and that they matter just as much as your technical experience regardless of role. So, how do you see that play out inside the organizations that you work with?

[00:15:48] Jacob: When I, now, when with, the clients I have, a lot of times what, I do training specifically on identifying soft skills, and that's part of what I do when I help train hiring teams. You gotta understand that sometimes they're like, they need to have experience with X, Y, and Z software, whatever that software is.

[00:16:08] And my thing is, is that trainable? Because you gotta understand that sometimes using a tool or something like that, I can train an individual on that. A soft skill will be something, is this person coachable? Can they work autonomously? But within a collaborative environment? So, meaning are they able to figure stuff out by themselves? But at the same time, if they run into too much trouble, are they able to collaborate with others to figure out a solution or ask for help when needed without really dragging the rest of the team down. Those are soft skills.

[00:16:43] Michael: Right,

[00:16:44] Jacob: Those are things you're not gonna find on a resume. Those are just through conversations. So as far as the soft skill part, I would, and I tell people this, the soft skills are probably just as if not in some cases more important than what the technical skills could be because you can always train those up, you know?

[00:17:01] Michael: Yeah, and I think for most dads, they already have one particular soft skill and that's adaptability. You can't

[00:17:08] Jacob: Yeah,

[00:17:08] Michael: really be a dad without being adaptable. Right.

[00:17:11] Jacob: That's a hundred percent true.

[00:17:13] Michael: And I think when a lot of dads I talk to are like, yeah, I wanna get back into the job market, or I wanna look for something that's gives me better balance with between my work life and my home life, one thing that they, a lot of them lack the confidence of like, how do I even start this? But you're already bringing more to the table, I think, than you, than you realize, and for at least for dads, I think it's like adaptability is one you can just start off with. Like you can check that box, like, I am adaptable and here's how I can adapt. So I'm wondering, for dads who have been caring for their children, been raising their kids full-time, part-time, anytime, or just imagine the daily chaos, how can they reframe the, that experience, that child raising experience in ways that HR teams will actually respect?

[00:18:04] Jacob: So, I, again, I would go through and it obviously, it depends on what the role is that you're looking for as your reentering, right? The adaptability thing, a hundred percent. Patience. Being self-sustaining and understanding timelines 'cause any dad that has been around their child for any amount of time know that routine and time is everything.

[00:18:33] Michael: Yes.

[00:18:34] Jacob: Right, they're gonna, you can almost put to the minute when they're gonna start fussing because they're hungry when it's snack time, when they need to take a nap. And you can anticipate those things. When you finally get the interview and you're talking to these HR people is, yes, I have this gap, but I have maintained my skills. But being a caregiver for my children, it has taught me what is essentially invaluable in that I'm adaptable. I understand responsibility. I res-, I understand timelines. I can anticipate. I'm forward thinking. And most importantly is that I know how to work independently because if you're, I'm literally in charge of this living thing, whether it lives or dies. And so I have to forward think, I have to plan, I have to be responsible. So you can frame it that way in a much more articulated way, of course, but.

[00:19:33] Michael: Are there any tips or tricks you'd have or thoughts on what job seekers can do to make sure that those soft skills, those strengths don't get lost in these automated systems or these rigid job descriptions that are out there now?

[00:19:50] Jacob: Yeah, I think and this is on a, from my own experience as a parent. It's important to, I think it's, especially if you're a full-time stay at home, it's easy to make that your entire life and your identity. It is so important, not only for your own mental health, but also for your professional life, for just being an adult to step away. Branch out, get other activities going, join other groups. And so to your question, things that they can do is join a networking group. Join a guys group, join a professional development group, join a bowling league. Something that's gonna get you away from the kids, where you can be an adult, where you can talk to other men or other adults or whomever and interact 'cause again, it'll be easy to. When you're around kids 24/7 and you're doing a stay at home thing to get to, to lose yourself in that.

[00:20:50] Michael: Right.

[00:20:52] Jacob: And so it is so important that as you're starting to do jobs here, you're thinking about maybe in the next year I'm gonna get my kids are gonna start school, I'm gonna start getting back in the workforce.

[00:21:01] Start looking now, even if it's a, an hour group a week for an hour or half an hour or whatever it is. Go join an adult group. A men's group, but something to where you can start almost integrating yourself back around other adults.

[00:21:19] Michael: That's a great point.

[00:21:20] Jacob: Yeah.

[00:21:21] Michael: It's so easy to lose track of the world out there when your world is so focused on your family life, your kids, you're just making sure they get through the day and do all things that they need to do and want to do. So that's, that's a really...

[00:21:40] Jacob: The other thing too, and I do wanna, and I tell people this too, and I think it is very important, there are a lot of tools that you can and courses that are cheap, real cheap that you can take on your own time. Udemy is one of 'em. Depending on what, whether it's you're going into tech or you're gonna be going into project management or sales or whatever, there's some of these courses that are, they're 15, 20 dollars, and it's self-paced and it's 10 hours worth of classroom lecture time, and then they have exercises.

[00:22:14] Don't be afraid to do those. Try 'em out, check 'em out. Put those on your resume. So it's also, that's a form of professional building.

[00:22:22] Michael: Yep. That's a great point.

[00:22:24] That's a great point. So you've helped companies design better people operations, and I put the emphasis on people here. Are you seeing more organizations intentionally building flexibility into their systems? Or is it still mostly just talk?

[00:22:42] Jacob: What do you mean by flexibility? Because that's

[00:22:44] Michael: Flexibility can be things like remote work or flexible hours. And for, you have to up your kids from school at three o'clock. Can you work till two 30 and then come back on

[00:22:56] Jacob: Gotcha.

[00:22:56] Michael: At six o'clock? Kids might have an appointment. The, you need to leave work for a couple hours. Like, general, mostly time flexibility, but understanding of the way that sort of modern family life tends to go these days.

[00:23:13] Jacob: Yeah. It depends on industry. It depends on company. That varies. The bigger companies, no, they're going the other way of that. I know during the pandemic it was all the rage of working remote and we're gonna be more flexible and all that.

[00:23:28] And now they're over the past year and a half, we've seen everyone bring in people back in-house, mandatory, having set hours.

[00:23:39] The smaller organizations, and obviously depends on industry, they tend to be more flexible. I'm not seeing as much fully remote work as

[00:23:51] Michael: right.

[00:23:52] Jacob: a few years back, but there's a lot more hybrid, and I think as the older generation is starting to retire, the boomer generation is starting to retire,

[00:24:01] Michael: Yep.

[00:24:02] Jacob: X'ers and even millennials are starting to get into more C-level and, high le-, leadership roles, and they understand the importance of work-life balance. And so there's, they're, we're starting to see more understanding of, hey, instead of me putting like an hour in here for PTO because I gotta go whatever, a lot of times it's just get your stuff done. If you need to pick up your kid, go pick up your kid. But that's why some of these interview processes as the candidate, it's important to, to ask those questions 'cause the culture is, that's gonna be just as important, if not more so than what the actual job entails.

[00:24:36] Michael: Right. That's a great point. What are, what's a simple kind of mindset shift that helps people feel less intimidated by HR?

[00:24:53] Jacob: We're not cops and everyone always thinks HR, oh man, HR is here. Like they're, it's like the, it's the fuzz, you can't like say this, say that. That's not always the case. A lot of, and it depends on, there's, HR is one of those things where it's, there's so much that goes into it, and it depends on what it is. There's people that are I'm in, I'm in HR on the talent acquisition side, that's one part of it. But there's others that are HR, they do compliance, they do employee engagement, they do whatever. So just know that with HR is that we're human.

[00:25:31] We are not here to get anyone in trouble or to do it. We're really here to help the company grow, to scale, to keep employees, to lower turnover, to make the work experience joyful 'cause after all most people that I know anyway they work so that they can live.

[00:25:51] They don't live. So that way they can work. No one on their deathbed has gone, man, I wish I would've put in more hours at my company. No one ever says that.

[00:26:00] Michael: Right.

[00:26:01] Jacob: And most, I would say the majority of HR people understand that and they wanna help employees get to that feeling to understand that we want you to be here, we want you to thrive here.

[00:26:13] We're just trying to set up systems and processes so that it's inclusive for everyone. So everyone can be happy. Really.

[00:26:23] Michael: And again, you're human. Right?

[00:26:24] Jacob: Human.

[00:26:25] Michael: Right. It comes, it always comes back to being human these days.

[00:26:29] Jacob: Yep.

[00:26:30] Michael: Alright, so speaking of being human, how do you personally balance client work, family in your own boundaries around time?

[00:26:39] Jacob: So, I am lucky enough to where I have an amazing wife and partner that she works full time. She has to go in, she works hybrid, so she goes into the office a few days a week. And so we're really good at communicating and, hey, I need to be here for this. I need you to step up for that.

[00:27:02] I need we this. So that helps a lot. For those that are, maybe they don't have that or they're a single parent you gotta find your community. Whether that be a family, a friend, or something like that. But that's really how I've been able to bridge my gap is I was fortunate enough to where I have an amazing wife who's a great mom, who's all we're moving in the same direction.

[00:27:32] So it's, we understand that she works full-time. I work full-time. It's a give and get. And so we're flexible.

[00:27:40] Michael: That's awesome. I love that you have that. And I also like that you pointed out that even if you don't have that, even if you are a single dad or you're in a relationship where just there isn't as much balance available, that you're still not alone in this. You, like you said, you have to find your community.

[00:27:59] Jacob: Yep.

[00:27:59] Michael: I, being a father can be lonely at times especially when you're doing the caregiving. So it's impor-, I'm glad you pointed out the importance of, you have support, you just have to find your support,

[00:28:13] Jacob: You have to find it.

[00:28:14] Michael: Your right support.

[00:28:15] It's a...

[00:28:16] Jacob: I think and that's, one of the things to, to tie it back, is you gotta find your, a group. You gotta step away from the kids a little bit. And I know it, it's harder when, if you're a single parent. I know it's harder because of the time commitment, but it's a it's, I think it's a nec-, it's necessary to survive at that point.

[00:28:36] You, you have to do it.

[00:28:38] Michael: Agreed. Agreed. Alright. Let's jump into the speed round. Let's have a little bit more fun now.

[00:28:44] Jacob: Ooh.

[00:28:44] Michael: All right. This is gonna be. These questions are a little bit different than what we've been talking about, but gonna go through them real quick and you just tell me what comes to mind and we'll go from there. First question, what's the first kids show theme song that comes to mind?

[00:29:01] Jacob: Looney Tunes.

[00:29:02] Michael: Looney Tunes.

[00:29:05] Jacob: Yeah. I'm a big Looney Tune guy. Always have been.

[00:29:08] Michael: Excellent. Bringing out the classics. I love it.

[00:29:09] Jacob: Yep.

[00:29:10] Michael: What was your very

[00:29:10] Jacob: Yep.

[00:29:11] Michael: first job?

[00:29:13] Jacob: Very first job was, aside from probably babysitting, I would say, like an actual, like where you're getting a pay stub and everything? I was a waiter in high school.

[00:29:25] Michael: Can you name the restaurant?

[00:29:27] Jacob: Chewy's. It was a Mexican restaurant in, in Dallas.

[00:29:31] Michael: Wow. Very cool. Would you rather spend 24 hours with a toddler-sized T-Rex or a T-Rex-sized toddler?

[00:29:41] Jacob: A toddler-sized T-Rex or a T-Rex-sized toddler? Oh, man. The toddler-sized T-Rex. Can you imagine like the size of the poop that you would have to change diapers with if it was a T-Rex-sized toddler? Oh, man. Forget that.

[00:30:00] Michael: That'd probably the least of my concerns if I was.

[00:30:04] Jacob: Yeah, true that, but I'm just thinking, oh man, changing that diaper? Holy sm-, you have to get a dump truck.

[00:30:10] Michael: It would be fun. It would be novel for sure. All right, so what's your go-to karaoke song, or the one you'd have to pick if you were forced?

[00:30:20] Jacob: So my, I do have a go-to karaoke song. It's Paul Revere by the Beastie Boys.

[00:30:27] Michael: Wow. Nice.

[00:30:29] Jacob: I can rap that whole thing.

[00:30:31] Michael: Someday, I'm gonna have to hear that.

[00:30:33] Jacob: Oh, yeah.

[00:30:35] Michael: Alright, last question of the speed round. What's the weirdest thing you've ever carried around in your bag, your briefcase or your pockets?

[00:30:44] Jacob: Ooh. The weirdest thing?

[00:30:50] Michael: Yep.

[00:30:52] Jacob: In my po-, I don't, man, I don't know, probably, I'm gonna go back to the nineties here.

[00:30:59] Michael: Great.

[00:30:59] Jacob: I used to when Tamagotchis were really big,

[00:31:02] Michael: Yeah.

[00:31:02] Jacob: I used to carry mine around everywhere. Everywhere. I had it in my pocket everywhere, on my backpack. But anyone that knows me, especially if my, when my wife hears this, I don't carry things like, so when we go shopping, when we go out, like with the kids and stuff,

[00:31:17] Michael: Yeah.

[00:31:18] Jacob: don't give me the backpack.

[00:31:19] Don't give me the bag 'cause I ain't carrying it. So I'm always very like my pockets. I don't like carrying things in my pockets. I don't like carrying bags. But probably when I was little, I guess I used to carry around a tamagotchi everywhere.

[00:31:31] Michael: Excellent. You still have it.

[00:31:33] Jacob: I do not.

[00:31:36] Michael: Jacob, I appreciate you coming on the show. This has been such a great conversation, especially for dad trying to figure out the whole black box of applying for jobs in HR and how it all works together and how they can translate their skills to, to what they wanna do next. How can, before we wrap up, where can listeners learn more about what you're doing at Worq Tap and connect with you online?

[00:32:03] Jacob: You can go to my website worqtap.com, W-O-R-Q-T-A-P.com. And I'm also on LinkedIn. And LinkedIn is probably the best place to message me. Connect with me. I'm a super connector, so if you send me a connection request more times than not I'm gonna, I'll connect and then respond regardless.

[00:32:29] One other thing I just, I do wanna mention is with, with dads, especially ones that have taken that time off, they had a career. They decided I'm gonna be the stay-at-home dad. Which again, I don't think is talked enough about and is not value. It's almost seen as taboo. Which again, I'm not sure why, but I think that it is so important to don't get discouraged.

[00:32:57] It's gonna be frustrating at first. You're gonna get a lot of no's, you're gonna get a lot of pass ups, and it is so important for people to understand that for every no, there's a yes coming. And so you just gotta forge ahead. Go through the process, connect with everyone, talk to anybody about everything at any time.

[00:33:16] That's how you're gonna find it. And don't give up.

[00:33:19] Michael: Love that, that is the perfect way to, to wrap up this show.

[00:33:22] Jacob: Yeah.

[00:33:23] Michael: That's what we're all about here, and I really appreciate it again, Jacob, thank you for, joining me and sharing your insights today. I think your perspective has brought a lot of value to this community, so I appreciate that. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and check out the Gap to Gig newsletter at gaptogig.com. It's where I share weekly stories, tools, and inspiration to help dads relaunch and redesign their careers. That's it for this episode. Remember, your career is just one part of your story and it's never too late to write the next chapter. ​

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