Stephanie Cordes on Finding Clarity When Success No Longer Feels Right

[00:00:00] Stephanie: Even if you have a master's degree, even if you're a doctor, people decide they don't wanna be doctors anymore and they do something else. It's, it's not unheard of. People do it all the time. I have an advanced degree, too. I left that behind. I walked away, and I'm doing something completely different now.

[00:00:17] People still think it's kind of, you know, avant garde to do that, but actually people do it more and more now when you realize that what you picked when you were 22 for your lifelong career didn't end up working out for you when you were 40.

[00:00:33] ​

[00:00:40] Michael: Welcome to Gap, the Gig, the show for Dads reimagining how work fits into life, not the other way around. It's where we talk about what comes next, how to make sense of the in-between and who you become in the process. I'm your host Michael Jacobs, and my guest today is Stephanie Cordes.

[00:00:52] She works with people who reach a point where career success and the life they wanna live are no longer pointing in the same direction. Stephanie's a career ownership coach with The Entrepreneur's Source, and get clear on what they actually want their life to look like and evaluate different paths forward without rushing into a decision they'll regret later. Stephanie's lived this herself. She's a wife, a mom, and a former corporate professional who realized that checking all the boxes didn't automatically mean she was building the right life.

[00:01:16] Now she helps others navigate that same moment with a calm, clarity-first approach that replaces panic with perspective. Stephanie, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here.

[00:01:26] Stephanie: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

[00:01:27] Michael: I appreciate that. So you spend a lot of time talking to people right at that moment where something kind of feels off, but nothing is necessarily broken yet.

[00:01:37] Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:37] Michael: When someone first reaches out to you and says, I think something needs to change, but I don't know what, what's usually going on for them?

[00:01:44] Stephanie: Well, you know, sometimes there's just some quiet misalignment going on. People aren't really happy and they don't know why and, and that's usually the start of it. They start to feel like maybe I need a new job, but that's not really it. So that's, that's where we start. We start with everyone at the beginning talking about, well, let's talk about what your goals are for the future. And then, you know, we get, we get into that talking across four different dimensions: income, lifestyle, wealth, and equity. And people typically haven't been asked those questions before or if ever and if they haven't, it hasn't been for a very long time.

[00:02:30] Michael: Right. And so when you talk about misalignment, it's within those four cornerstones that you mentioned?

[00:02:38] Stephanie: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[00:02:40] So we talk about lifestyle, so maybe the work balance isn't working for them, you know? Our lives change a lot over the years, so it could be, you know, when you're first outta college, if you don't have a family yet, maybe you're willing to work 60 or 70 hours a week.

[00:02:57] Michael: Right.

[00:02:58] Stephanie: But over time, you know, lives can change a lot. So if you, if you have children, suddenly working that many hours doesn't, may not work for you anymore. So that's why it's good to reassess, you know, what are your goals? You didn't really probably think a lot about work life balance when you were 25,

[00:03:18] Michael: Right.

[00:03:18] Stephanie: But that'll be different when you're older.

[00:03:20] So it's good to reassess what really is important to you. And that's a big part of it. Work-life balance is a big part of it.

[00:03:28] Michael: Absolutely. I think a lot of dads, the ones I talk to, that's what they struggle with, right, of it's not just, you know, do I like my work? But it's finding meaningful work. And then once you do find that meaningful work, how do you balance that work with also being present at home, being present for those that you care most about.

[00:03:52] And that balance between your meaningful work and your home life is a challenge. And you make an interesting point about lifestyle. Your lifestyle, I think for a lot of dads, lifestyle in their early and mid twenties is very different than the lifestyle they expect to have in their late twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, whatever it may be 'cause life, life evolves. Life changes. You mentioned, I know you mentioned lifestyle is one of those four cornerstones,

[00:04:19] and I think you said income was another.

[00:04:22] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:04:22] Michael: That obviously changes, right, over time? You typically are hoping that you were climbing the income ladder as you right your path. How do you align those, each of those cornerstones together?

[00:04:34] Stephanie: Right. So what I hear a lot and what used to surprise me and doesn't surprise me anymore, is that sometimes people realize they don't need as much income as they needed before. Now, that's not true for everybody, you know, and especially when people don't have enough income, it's hard to think about your wants when your needs aren't being met.

[00:04:56] So, I mean, let's recognize that some people, you know, you do, everyone needs a certain level of income and that's it, but for some people, for some fortunate people, they do come to realize, look, I don't need to make the amount of money that I'm making now. I could actually, I could actually make less if I could find, to your point, meaningful work. Sometimes people when they realize they're a cog in the wheel, and they don't even like what they're doing, they say, you know, if I could find something that I really enjoyed, or something that, you know, did provide a useful service to people or a product that mattered, I wouldn't mind making less money.

[00:05:39] Michael: Right,

[00:05:39] Stephanie: You know, money is great and it can buy you a lot of things, but it doesn't buy you more time with your kids.

[00:05:45] Michael: Right.

[00:05:46] Stephanie: So, all of these things together, when you give people a chance to sit with, sit for a minute and think about these different goals, and that's how you start putting it all together. You give yourself permission to dream a little bit. And I went through this process myself. You know, I'm a corporate refugee. I love that term. I think it captures kind of the whole thing. I was in the corporate world. I did very well, and I realized these things weren't working for me and I didn't go looking for a career ownership coach. I was just frustrated and burnt out, and so I was just looking for another job. Just to turn the page and find something else that I didn't think it would make me happy. I just thought it would distract me for a while and hoped for the best. I figured I'd end up being just as miserable, but I was just ready to turn the page and instead I bumped into a career ownership coach and went through this exercise with her and it, it gave me an opportunity to think about things I had never thought about before. And I did quickly realize I didn't need to make what I was making. You have that drive, I think, especially as a professional, you wanna keep climbing, you wanna keep making more money, and it's hard, I think when you have a family to say, to take away, you don't wanna feel like you're taking away. If you're making a certain income level, it's hard to think that, you know, you wanna peel that back.

[00:07:09] You don't wanna be perceived as taking anything away from your family. At the same time, you know, if you're missing out on things and you can't be the parent to go to the party, you can't be there to go to the ceremony for this or that or the other thing, that weighs on you, too. And you have a partner and you're trying to do this together, so, you know, taking the time to work on these goals, what you end up doing, we put it together in a North Star statement. And that is something that will encompass all of these goals. And then it gives you a directional statement. Where is this going?

[00:07:44] Where is your life going? What do you want it to look like? And then you can use that to measure any possibility that you're considering. Any income path for the future, whether it's, you know, the W2, it should start with the W2 job that you're in now, and anything that you might consider for the future.

[00:08:04] That's where I always start with my clients is with goals and creating a North Star statement. Something that most people haven't thought of for a very long time.

[00:08:16] Michael: Right. And that North Star statement, I presume, is very personal, right? It's catered to the individual that you're working with. So,

[00:08:25] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:08:25] Michael: Yes, they might be in a W2 today and maybe they're North Star points to another W2-type job, or maybe it doesn't, maybe it points to starting their own business or doing some sort of contracting or doing something more in the service sector, per se.

[00:08:41] Stephanie: Right. Well, the, the North Star will be agnostic to a particular income path. It's gonna talk about the goals they want, you know, the income level they're looking for. It's gonna talk about their goals for lifestyle. Their goals for retirement. How they wanna spend their day. You know, what they like to do, what they wanna have more time for. So, then you use that North Star to look at different income paths or vehicles for success, whether that's staying in the W2 world, um, whether that's looking at, you know, meeting your goals through investments in real estate or the stock market or different types of business ownership. You know, like if there's a business down the street, you could look into buying that. You could start a business from scratch. You could do a consultancy. You could sell stuff on Amazon or Etsy, or you could look into franchising.

[00:09:34] Michael: Got it. Got it. So you talked to a lot of dads who might already look successful on paper,

[00:09:41] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:09:41] Michael: but they still feel like something's off. What does that usually sound like when they first start talking it through?

[00:09:47] Stephanie: Sure. Well, sometimes I just try to kind of downplay it or joke about it, you know, or maybe even apologize for bringing it up. Like, I know I should be grateful, you know, I make X amount of dollars.

[00:09:58] You know, but, you know, my, my wife's mad 'cause I'm never home and I really thought, you know, we, maybe we waited X number of years to have kids, or I got married late and you know, now I'm never home, but I don't know what to do because we have this great lifestyle,

[00:10:17] Michael: right,

[00:10:17] Stephanie: and we don't wanna give that up. But I'm never home. This isn't what I pictured.

[00:10:22] Michael: Right.

[00:10:22] Stephanie: You know, well, what else can I do? I mean, are there really other options for me out there? Because a lot of times when people think about other options, and this was me too, I, I thought I could be a business owner in theory.

[00:10:36] Why not? I was a business person. I was successful. I worked for top 10 insurance companies. But I didn't have any great ideas. I, I like to talk about the guy who thought of the Ring camera. Well, why can't I be that guy? I don't have any, I don't have any great ideas. I'm not gonna invent it. Just, it's not gonna happen.

[00:10:55] I'm not gonna invent anything amazing. Um, so I'm not gonna be that person. But there are tons of opportunities for business ownership. You don't have to think of a great idea. And I just needed to learn about that. So, I just lucked into meeting a business ownership, ownership coach who first, after talking to me about my goal, said, I think you'd be a great business owner. And I was like, well, yeah, but I don't have any good ideas. So that's, that's been always a problem for me, you know? And I don't wanna be a consultant 'cause I did consulting work already, but I didn't feel like I could get enough clients to support myself, and I'm sure I was right about that. So, you know, I think that a lot of the people that I meet were a lot like me, whether they're moms or dads or single people, you know, they, they feel the same thing after being in the corporate world for so long.

[00:11:47] You know, like, I'm kind of stuck here. I achieved what I wanted to achieve, but now that I'm here, it kind of sucks

[00:11:54] Michael: Yeah.

[00:11:55] Stephanie: and I don't know what to do.

[00:11:56] Michael: Right. And so in trying to address that and acknowledging this sort of dichotomy of I've got, I'm doing fine, maybe professionally, but not personally. I feel like in my conversations with other dads that there is this pressure to fix things fast.

[00:12:22] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:12:22] Michael: Right? And it's hard to recognize that it's not necessarily a fast fix all the time.

[00:12:31] Stephanie: Right.

[00:12:31] Michael: It, it really, you need to slow down

[00:12:34] Stephanie: yeah.

[00:12:35] Michael: to, even when it feels uncomfortable to do so.

[00:12:38] Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:39] Michael: You might feel motivated, like, yeah, I need to make changes right now, but that's not how things tend to work, right?

[00:12:46] Stephanie: Well, if you do things fast, you're being reactive, right? Like, I'm gonna put a fast, and actually that's what I was trying to do when I was looking for another job. I just was ready to,

[00:12:57] Michael: Yeah,

[00:12:57] Stephanie: you know, go on to the next thing and, and hope for the best. That's reactive. But if you stop for a minute, you know. Figure out what your goals are, create that North Star statement

[00:13:11] Michael: and

[00:13:11] Stephanie: you know, go through, you know, I offer my clients is a process of, you know, education, awareness, and discovery. Take some time to learn about what options there are for you out there. You know, every step that you take as you work on those goals and think about those different dimensions and put together your North Star, you are making progress. So you're, you're taking small steps forward that are helping to bring you clarity and you're reducing the unknowns and you're reducing, you are taking steps forward and you need to kind of recognize it as that. So, you're being, you're not being reactive, and you're taking a thoughtful approach to get to the right place, and when you make reactive decisions, you often end up in the wrong place. So, I've, I've worked with people, I've worked with clients that, you know, they worked with me, but they were also in a big hurry, too. And I work with clients who are still interviewing for jobs, and I support that and track on it because I want them to choose the right path. The vast majority of people that work with me don't go into business ownership.

[00:14:21] They do stay in the W2 world, but maybe they shift and take a different path. Um, you know, look, find a better position that better meets their goals.

[00:14:29] Michael: Right.

[00:14:30] Stephanie: So I celebrate all that with my clients, all the different paths and different ways they might go and track on that. And I've certainly worked with a lot of people who, in their hurry to find something else, go into the wrong W2 job, and then come back to me, you know, six months or a year later.

[00:14:47] Michael: Right.

[00:14:47] Stephanie: You know, to start again and try to find the right thing.

[00:14:52] Michael: Yep. And you said that the goal of finding your North Star essentially is clarity, right? If I'm pointing that out correctly. So, when someone really has that, when they have that clarity, what does that actually look like in real life?

[00:15:09] Stephanie: Yeah, so what it looks like is you, you take that North Star and then you use it to measure against all the different possible income paths. So, what that allows you to do, and what I'm always coaching to is a point. It is the point of clarity where you find the right income path that meets your North Star goals. So, it means you wait for the right position, the right W2 position. You know, you find the right, you know, whether it's an investment strategy or you find a business ownership opportunity that's the right one for you. And reach that point of clarity that this is the right thing for me. And that's, that's what I'm coaching to that point of clarity.

[00:15:53] Michael: Got it. That makes sense. So, when you help dads kind of untangle what they think they want from what they actually want,

[00:16:04] Stephanie: yeah,

[00:16:04] Michael: with their lives, what does that look like when that process of untangling?

[00:16:13] Stephanie: So, you know, it starts, I've got some great tools that, that help me do that and work through that, you know, through that conversation. So I have a, a great portal that includes those tools and there's some things, some exercises to work on and an assessment. And then, you know, we talk through it and I ask some things that people probably, I remember when my coach asked me, what do you do for fun?

[00:16:36] And I was like, "fun?" Like laundry? I don't have an answer for that. You know, I work full time, got a bunch of kids, you know, a husband. You know, what, do you wanna have more time? What would you like to have more time for in the future? That's kind of an interesting question. No one had ever asked me that before, so there's a lot of time spent thinking about things like that. What would you, if you had more time, what would you do with it? Are there things that you wish that you were involved with maybe from a charitable perspective or like in your community? You know, are you interested in doing things like that? What would you do? Did you do things like that before?

[00:17:20] Would you like to get reengaged? It's a lot of talking and thinking, but, and as much as the client puts into it is, you know, how much they're gonna get out of it. But to answer your question, I've got some great tools that help me do that. And, you know, it's a conversation,

[00:17:34] Michael: Yeah.

[00:17:34] Stephanie: But the North Star's a living document. So, what's interesting is sometimes, now I look at this like a journey with my clients. So sometimes they put together North Star as they get further into the journey, let's say they do some discovery on some certain businesses, they'll come back and say, I wanna make some changes to that North Star. They realize what they thought they wanted wasn't quite it and so

[00:17:55] Michael: Right.

[00:17:56] Stephanie: we change it and that's okay because it's meant to be an iterative document.

[00:18:00] Michael: Right, right. It's a living document. It's a personal document. It's not something that you set in stone and that's what you go after because people evolve, time evolves. So, yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. You mentioned, you know, you talked about identifying or recognizing what you enjoy doing. What's, what do you do for fun?

[00:18:22] What do you, where do you want to spend your time at home? But oftentimes with dads, I see that there's sort of an underlying tension of feeling stuck between wanting to be a provider and still doing the things that they enjoy and being present at home. How do you kind of help your clients or help others see through that tension and kind of make it manageable?

[00:18:49] Stephanie: Yeah, well I think that, you know, time management is, you know, something that is difficult when you're working a lot of hours, you know, and I, I understand that tension. I don't think it's isolated just to dads, although I can understand that I was the big, I was the major breadwinner in my family at the time.

[00:19:13] So I think that, you know, you know, creating a North Star and making space for that. I mean, I think their partners probably feel that, too. So I think it's a conversation and the North Star is to think is, is the place for, you know, what do you want your future state to look like? So things aren't great now.

[00:19:34] No one's having time for themselves or having not enough of it. We're not having enough family time. We're not having our own time. You know, this isn't, this isn't what we envision, but what if it could look different? What would that look like? Would I work, you know, how many hours a week would I work?

[00:19:51] How many hours a week would my wife work? What would that look like if we could create this state? And then you goal set, you know, what that would look like. and then you look, look for finding income paths and ways to make that happen. But I think you need to set those goals together with your partner.

[00:20:11] Michael: Okay.

[00:20:12] Stephanie: Because first you set those goals and then you set about ways to achieve them and make sure you're both clear on, on the same goals.

[00:20:18] Michael: Yeah, I love how you framed it. It's a conversation, right? It's, if you have a partner, I mean, literally the word partner means doing things together. And that includes setting those goals and figuring out a path to accomplishing them. And this is not a, you know, a lot of, or several dads that I've talked to, they, they've put themselves into a mindset of I have to do this. I have to be the provider, I have to be at home.

[00:20:48] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:20:49] Michael: But really it's, it's not a one-track setting. You have somebody you are partnered with and not everybody has a partner and respectfully that, you know, that's perfectly normal and it's just as okay. But when you do have a partner, it's, it's not a one-way street.

[00:21:08] You don't have to be everything to everyone, right? But you have to be able to open yourself up to work together to figure out what is in the best interest of not just yourself, but those around you, those that are most important to you. And the way you frame that is it's a conversation. It's a, a

[00:21:30] Stephanie: Right.

[00:21:30] Michael: two-way street, and you can have multiple providers in a family, as you mentioned, right?

[00:21:37] Mm-hmm. And sometimes you might be more of a provider and sometimes less of a provider. But at the end of the day, it's not just about providing financially, right? It's you have to be there, you have to be present, you have to be, provide emotionally,

[00:21:50] Stephanie: Right.

[00:21:51] Michael: right? Physically be there to have those conversations with your kids, with your spouse, with your partner.

[00:21:57] Like those things are equally important and

[00:22:00] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:22:00] Michael: you can't do that if you don't have those conversations,

[00:22:03] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:22:03] Michael: right? You, you get stuck in this kind of one-track mind, and it's an easy trap to fall into. I think we all have from time. We all do from time to time,

[00:22:13] Stephanie: Right.

[00:22:14] Michael: but we have to remember to have those conversations.

[00:22:17] So I think that's really important. I really appreciate you pulling that out. So, you know, there's, we've talked about tensions a lot, and one of the tensions that I see a lot is that some people feel like they're running away from their job. Like, it's, they don't feel like it's the right job for them anymore, or they're not, they don't have the time to, to support their family.

[00:22:46] Or maybe it's just a, a job that just causes a lot of stress and just not interesting and some feel like they wanna be moving towards something as opposed to away from something.

[00:22:59] Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:00] Michael: How do you tell the difference between running away from your current position, your current work, to moving towards something, because I think your North Star, from my understanding, is helping you move towards something, not necessarily run away from your

[00:23:17] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:23:18] Michael: job, but how do you help tell that difference?

[00:23:20] Stephanie: Right. So I think that, you know, once you have your North Star, you know, you use it to measure di-, different income path possibilities or vehicles for success is another word for that.

[00:23:32] Michael: Sure.

[00:23:32] Stephanie: You can use it to assess my current role and figure out what is, what is it about this role that's, you know, not working for me?

[00:23:39] If, you know, when I talked about that quiet misalignment and you're not sure what it is, well it should be clear when you measure it against your North Star. What is the actual issue here if you haven't been able to verbalize it before? So, I think that would be a good, a good start. You know, I think that when you talk about running away from things, that's kind of a, like a, a mentality, right? And we can get hung up on the way that we've been told to think about things. I think it's okay to grow and set new goals and realize every decision I make may not have been the best one. So, or this didn't work. You interview for a job two times, three times. Okay, maybe five in some extreme cases, but how many of us, you walk into a job, it's never exactly what they tell you it's gonna be, right?

[00:24:35] Michael: Right.

[00:24:36] Stephanie: So, you know, I go through and I look at people's backgrounds with them and ask them, you know, if they feel good about their career, if they've been successful. And so many people are so beat down and they say, "no, I haven't been successful." And I look at their, I'm looking at their profile going, why do you think that? I'm looking at this, what a great background you have. You know, you're incredible. I said, do you feel this way because you left this role after a couple years 'cause it wasn't right for you, and then you went to this job and they laid you off. And they're like, well, yeah, that's the problem. I said, well, that wasn't your fault. You know, we don't always know what we're getting into. We think we do. We've tried, you know, we thought we knew what we were getting into, but you don't know what you don't know. So, I think we take so much on, you know, this was our fault. I made bad decisions. And we need to let some of that go. So much of it, so much of how we perceive things is, is gosh, how we frame them up ourselves and, and give ourselves all of this baggage and we need to be able to let that go and, you know, reset our focus. That's hard when you talk about running away from something. So a lot of dads out there, you know, have had good educations, and you get into a job in a certain track and you're doing that work and you realize you don't like it. So, if you were your parents, you would still just keep doing that job for 50 or 60 years and say, okay, that's life, but this is a new day and people pivot now.

[00:26:08] Michael: Yeah.

[00:26:09] Stephanie: Even if you have a master's degree. Even if you're a doctor. People decide they don't wanna be doctors anymore and they want to do something else. It's, it's not unheard of. People do it all the time.

[00:26:20] Michael: Yeah.

[00:26:20] Stephanie: I have an advanced degree, too. I left that behind. I walked away and I'm doing something completely different now. People still think it's kind of, you know, avant garde to do that, but actually people do it more and more now when you realize that what you picked when you were 22 for your lifelong career didn't end up working out for you when you were 40.

[00:26:43] Michael: Right.

[00:26:44] Stephanie: Right.

[00:26:45] Michael: Yep. Times change, people change, and beliefs change. Yeah, absolutely. It's a fairly common belief. It seems that, you know, the, the work that you do didn't work out, so, but it's, you kind of internalize that as your own fault. Are there, what other common beliefs kind of are holding people back right now beyond just like I'm being laid off and it's all my fault?

[00:27:12] Stephanie: Right. Well, that one is so easy 'cause so many people are getting laid off right now. Oh my goodness. So when I look at these resumes and these people are getting laid off, I'm like, you're fantastic. It's not you. I talk to people all day long that have gotten laid off and they're great. So, you know, there's just a lot of industries that are hard hit right now, like IT, for one, and it's tough out there and so it's easy to internalize that. I really do get it. But there are some things that are making it really hard right now. The use of AI to review resumes. It's making it so hard for people to get past, you know, get through that first pass. So that's a, a commonly that, that's a big one. So, I hear that a lot and it's, it's really, really hard to hear. But I'm also happy to share 'cause I talk to so many people when I, when I meet people and they're, I talk to people that have sent hundreds of interviews and resumes, not gotten an interview. But then I talk to people that have been plugging away for six months and, you know, then things are starting to happen.

[00:28:17] So, I hear a lot of, a lot of good stories, too, and I'm happy to share those with my clients to, you know, give them encouragement. But in the meantime, they can learn about all their options while they continue to look for W2 jobs, so.

[00:28:30] Michael: Right. And so we are certainly in a challenging economy right now. There's no other way to, to put it. Like, jobs are becoming more scarce. There, there's lots of reductions in force. There are fewer new job openings currently across a broad sector, right? It's not just one thing. So in some cases, dads, a lot of dads I've talked to recently are saying that they kind of feel stuck and they don't wanna lose what they already have because they know it is challenging, so how can dads start exploring new possibilities without blowing up their current situation or even creating stress at home?

[00:29:13] Stephanie: Right, right. So, there are a lot of types of, I, I totally get that perspective. And actually I'd say a lot of my clients are in that same boat where they see the insecurity in the job market. They're like, thank goodness I have a position. It totally sucks, but thank God I have it. And I wanna protect myself from what might happen in the future because I see what's going on.

[00:29:38] There's constant layoffs. It could very well be me because it has nothing to do with performance, these layoffs, and it could be me in the future. So, what can I do to protect my family? So, a lot of my clients are very interested in starting additional revenue streams on the side, so that's something that I really work with people about.

[00:30:01] There are so many different business opportunities that you can start on the side. Um, it's something that depending on, you know, if you have a partner, it's something you guys can maybe do together. And so, you know, there's so many opportunities that way. That's something that allows you to maintain your current income stream,

[00:30:21] Michael: Right.

[00:30:22] Stephanie: manage it on the side, and let that, you know, keep building and building to kind of protect yourself and keep earning towards your goals. And maybe at some point you choose just to cut away from the corporate world. Maybe you don't ever get laid off, so you keep it going forever, you know? Or you decide to walk away to a certain point when your additional revenue stream gets big enough to support that. So, that's a very popular way to go, especially for people that are a little bit risk adverse.

[00:30:50] That's a very popular way to go, and there's so many different models to support that.

[00:30:54] Michael: Yeah. And what's the, when somebody does say, okay, maybe I'll stay at my current job, but I wanna try something on the side, maybe with my partner, maybe on my own, whatever it is, I just wanna kind of do something. What's that kind of first step that you have them take.

[00:31:10] Stephanie: So, once we've already, so the great thing is, so the, the first work is to work on the goals. Then after we do the North Star, we talk a little bit more about, what your skill sets are, your transferable skills, your business interests. So, then at that point, if they're interested in learning about some specific business models, I can introduce them to a few of my business partners and I've got over 250, and then they can actually get into the nitty nitty gritty of exploring some specific business models. And because I already know them and know what their goals are and their skills and their business interest, you know, I'll show them models, a few that are available in their area and that I think could meet their goals. And then they can get in there and do a deep dive learning about specific models, and then continue to meet with me and I'll kind of help them through the process, making sure they're still tracking on their goals, making sure that all their questions are getting answered, and then they just decide one call at a time if they wanna keep learning about those different business models.

[00:32:12] That's how it works.

[00:32:14] Michael: Very cool. And so that is an, it is a change, right? It's a big change to adds something onto your existing

[00:32:25] Stephanie: Sure.

[00:32:26] Michael: work. And so there's going to be some sort of time commitment in there and some

[00:32:30] Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:32] Michael: mental load that you are taking on to do that. So, before or while making those that kind of change, you know, you talked earlier about having a conversation with your partner.

[00:32:45] Stephanie: Yeah,

[00:32:46] Michael: What kinds of conversations should dads be having with their partners or with their families as they explore these changes?

[00:32:52] Stephanie: Sure, so, when I talk about learning, you know, the ins and outs of a business, we call that the discovery process, and that's something you would include your, your spouse in. So, they would also be hearing the same things you're hearing, and so different businesses have different, different requirements or different needs in terms of how much you would need to be involved. How many hours a week are we talking, you know, different investment levels, all of those things. Everything's so specific to every business. So those are the things, yeah, you're gonna need to work with your spouse to say, does this make sense for our family? Does this particular opportunity make sense for our family, right? Is this something that we can manage? Is this something that, you know, we can do between the two of us? Yeah, if you have a partner, your partner absolutely has to be involved in those conversations to make sure that, you know, it makes sense for you, and they would be a part of that whole discovery process. It's a process. There's a lot to learn about a business, to know if it's right for you. We're not talking like three phone calls here. We're talking like a process that takes to really learn, about a model and find out if it's right for you, you need to understand the business model, the marketing, the initial training, the ongoing training, any systems that they use. You need to speak to other owners. You need to meet the corporate team. That takes between four to eight weeks and it, it really takes as long as it takes for you to get all your questions answered. So,

[00:34:22] Michael: Right.

[00:34:23] Stephanie: it's a process.

[00:34:24] Michael: Yeah.

[00:34:24] Stephanie: It's a serious process, and you need to be really devoted to it and wanting to get all those answers.

[00:34:31] And then as you go along the way, sometimes you get part of the way through it and you're like, I've heard enough. This isn't gonna be for us, and that's okay.

[00:34:37] Michael: Right.

[00:34:38] Stephanie: And that's okay. And then sometimes you get all the way to the end. So, you know, it, it's meant to be a very all encompassing process so that you know, you know it so well by the time you get to the end of the process, you can imagine what a day in the life would look like if you were an owner. That's how well you need to know it.

[00:34:55] Michael: Right, and it's like you said, it's a process, so it's, you're taking steps, right? It's not one giant leap right at the beginning. You can't rush through these things, right? You take the first step, then you take the second step. You've gotta, again, slow things down to a point where, like you said, you understand the models, the market, all the things that are involved with whatever it is that you are venturing into.

[00:35:20] Stephanie: Yes.

[00:35:21] Michael: So, if a dad is listening right now, feels restless, but kind of unsure what to do next, what one small, low-pressure step could he take this week to start getting some clarity?

[00:35:34] Stephanie: Well, I think that I think that he should write down what feels off without trying to fix it, you know? Just what is feeling off this week. Sometimes clarity really starts with just naming what's off. I think that'd be great for a start.

[00:35:53] Michael: I love that it's, it's practical, right? It's not something that's like that you need an encyclopedia to do. Like you can just sit down and be like, okay, what is off? And just identify it. Like you said, name it.

[00:36:10] Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:11] Michael: Once it has a name, then you can address it.

[00:36:13] Stephanie: Right?

[00:36:14] Michael: Right? It's very hard to address something that you can't actually identify.

[00:36:17] Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:18] Michael: So, that's great advice. So I appreciate that. This is, this is great, but I want to kind of change things up and jump into our speed round. You ready?

[00:36:26] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:36:28] Michael: A lot of questions about nothing but everything at the same time. So I just, five quick questions and we will start with what's the first kid show theme song that comes to mind?

[00:36:38] Stephanie: Kim Possible.

[00:36:39] Michael: Kim Possible? Wow.

[00:36:41] Stephanie: Dating myself there.

[00:36:43] Michael: Classic.

[00:36:44] Stephanie: Classic

[00:36:45] Michael: Love it. What was your very first job?

[00:36:48] Stephanie: Waitress.

[00:36:49] Michael: Waitress. Excellent. Would you rather spend 24 hours with a toddler-sized T-Rex or a T-Rex-sized toddler?

[00:36:56] Stephanie: Both are absolutely terrifying. I, I refuse to answer in case it happens.

[00:37:02] Michael: Okay.

[00:37:02] Stephanie: No.

[00:37:02] Michael: Fair enough. Fair enough. What's your go-to karaoke song?

[00:37:07] Stephanie: Picture with Sheryl Crow and Kid Rock.

[00:37:12] Michael: Very nice. What's the weirdest thing you've ever carried around in your bag, briefcase or pockets?

[00:37:17] Stephanie: Oh. Ever carried around? Ever. Ever. Oh my gosh. Oh, well, when I had like kids in diapers, I always carried around like a huge thing of Aquaphor. Not like a little tube, like a massive tub of Aquaphor, just, whatever, always tub of Aquaphor,

[00:37:37] Michael: Yeah.

[00:37:38] Stephanie: for every problem that you have. Aquaphor.

[00:37:39] Michael: Right. Yes. They certainly got a lot of my money back in the day.

[00:37:44] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:37:46] Michael: I understand that. Well, you survived the, the speed round. Thank you. I appreciate that. Before we wrap up, for anyone listening who's nodding along and thinking this is exactly where I am, where's the best place for them to find you or reach out?

[00:37:58] Stephanie: Yeah, so you can go to Steph, like my name, S-T-E-P-H ahead.com. That will take you right to my corporate website where you can gimme your contact information, and I will reach out to you directly. You can tool around on my website, you could book an appointment, and check out all my tools.

[00:38:15] Michael: Excellent. Very cool. Very clever URL as well.

[00:38:18] Stephanie: Thank you.

[00:38:19] Michael: So, Stephanie, thank you so much for the conversation. I appreciate the, the honesty and the perspective and the way you kind of talk about presence that feels real, not theoretical of finding your North Star. It's a very personal thing, and I know a lot of dads listening are going to hear themselves and what you shared and hopefully walk away with something they can actually use.

[00:38:42] So, thanks for being here and for the work you're doing. I appreciate it. Finally, if you're a dad listening to this and trying to figure out what comes next, maybe you're in between jobs, starting something new, or just looking for more meaning in your work, head to gaptogig.com and subscribe to the Gap to Gig newsletter.

[00:38:55] And if you took something valuable from this episode, send it to a dad you think could also benefit. Until next time, I'm Michael Jacobs, and this is Gap to Gig, where we're building work that fits your life, not the other way around.

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