Alan Lazaros on Meaningful Work, Work-Life Balance, and Living from the Inside Out

WEBVTT

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Alan: You are so focused on looking
good rather than getting better

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: That you actually aren't
looking good eventually because

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you're not getting better.

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I would much rather you spend the next
decade working on getting better in

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real life, and then let that ripple
out into your reputation and your

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Instagram and your podcast and whatever
than the opposite, because eventually

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you get stuck and you have to hide.

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Michael: Welcome to Gap to Gig, the show
for dads navigating the in-between season

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when work, identity, and priorities
start asking different questions.

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Here, we talk about what that
season looks like and how to

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move through it with intention.

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I'm your host, Michael Jacobs, and
today's guest is Alan Lazaros, founder

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and CEO of Next Level University.

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Alan's story is shaped by two defining
moments: losing his father in a car

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accident at age two, and then surviving
a nearly fatal accident himself at 26.

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From the outside, he was doing
everything right: education, corporate

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success, checking all the boxes, but
internally, something wasn't lining up.

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That search for meaning led him deep
into personal growth, and eventually

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to building one of the most listened
to personal development podcasts in

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the world with millions of downloads
across more than 180 countries.

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Alan, I'm excited to chat with you today.

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Welcome to the show.

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I'm really glad you're here.

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Alan: Thank you for having me.

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Michael: My pleasure.

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Alan: The first thing I wanna start
with is just gratitude because

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the 21st century is very noisy,

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Michael: Yes.

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Alan: and I believe that what
you pay attention to is dictating

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the majority of your future.

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So, thank you for having me.

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I appreciate it, and I will not
waste a second of anyone's time.

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Michael: Appreciate that.

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So, your story includes both early loss
and a major wake up call in adulthood.

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And before we kind of talk about
the tactics or the balance of it

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all, I wanna start with how those
experiences shape the way you think

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about work and purpose and the kind
of life that you're trying to build.

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So, when you look back at your
life before that accident at 26,

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what did success mean to you then?

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And how did that definition
sort of change afterwards?

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Alan: Yeah, so I did the traditional path.

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I know you have a lot of US-based
listeners, so they'll resonate with this.

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So I was born and raised in Massachusetts.

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1988 I was born, and I did the
preschool, kindergarten, elementary

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school, middle school, high
school, college, corporate road.

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Michael: Sure.

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Alan: And my definition of success, so
my birth father you mentioned passed

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away when I was two, so it was 1991.

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He was 28 years old.

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Fast forward, so I had a stepfather named
steve Lazaros from age three to 14, from

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1992 to the early two thousands, and he
worked for a company called Agfa, A-G-F-A.

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They did hospital computers
during the dot-com era.

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And so from the outside looking
in, things looked really good.

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We had, you know, boats and ski trips
and we had a yacht and lived on a

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lake and all kinds of stuff, but my
mom and stepdad did not get along,

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and that's a polite way to put it.

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Michael: Sure.

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Alan: So, from the inside
out, it was not good.

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Stepdad left, took his entire
extended family with him.

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And never seen or spoken to
a single one of them since.

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Michael: Wow.

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Alan: And we didn't really
associate with the McCorkels

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anymore, my birth father's side.

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Same year mom gets in a
fight with my Aunt Sandy.

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We get kind of ostracized from her
side of the family, so I kind of lost

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three families by the time I was 14.

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Michael: Wow.

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Alan: Didn't know any of this at the
time, but the point to answer your

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original question, what success looks
like to me, when my stepdad left,

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he took 95% of the income with him.

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He got the yacht and
the apartment building.

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We get the house and the dog, and
we went from sort of boats and ski

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trips to now I get free lunch at
school 'cause our income is so low.

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My mom trades in her BMW
for a little Honda Civic.

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I'm, I'm, you know, we don't have cable.

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We're not gonna starve by any means.

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But how do we keep the
house in the family?

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No trust fund, no dad,
no generational wealth.

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We're in some trouble here.

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And the most important part of that was
I was at that point a very promising

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student and I wanted to go to WPI,
Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

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It's like a mini MIT in Massachusetts,
and it was $50,000 a year.

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And this is back then.

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: So, I went from my hope I
get in to, even if I do get in, I

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can't go 'cause we can't afford it.

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: So, my point of this is I had two
trauma responses when my stepdad left.

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In hindsight, I didn't
know this at the time.

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There's fight, flight, freeze, and fawn.

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Fawn is the one most
people don't know about.

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That's the one I chose.

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Socially, it was fawn, appease, appease,
appease, fit in, fit in, fit in.

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Don't lose any more friends and family.

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Don't lose any more friends and family.

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Don't lose any more friends and family.

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Michael: Sure.

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Alan: But behind the scenes when
no one was around, it was fight.

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It was aim higher, work harder,
get smarter, prove myself.

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Achieve, achieve, achieve.

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So, I got straight A's in high school.

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I got my computer
engineering degree at WPI.

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I got in.

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I got all the scholarships and
financial aid I possibly could.

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I got my master's in business and
then I was in corporate and I, I

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rose in corporate very quickly.

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I went from basically 65k a year
back then as an engineer, product

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engineer, all the way to almost
200 grand a year very quickly.

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And then I got in my car accident.

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So, I was 26.

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Head on collision.

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My fault.

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I was supposed to yield and didn't.

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Back in 2015, this 11 years ago.

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And that was sort of the
second chance my dad never got.

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So, what success meant to me before that
was money and achievement and significance

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and basically the certainty and security
that comes from keeping the house in the

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family and like taking care of my family.

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After 26, it shifted completely
because this is sort of the

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second chance my dad never got,

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: And that's when I found
self-improvement, personal

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growth, and personal development.

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And that's when I reevaluated my existence
and just kind of looked at my life and

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rewatched the movie of my own life, and
I realized I'm living this life from the

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outside in rather than the inside out.

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And, so, then my life became
dedicated to, I started a company

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back then called Alan Lazaros, LLC.

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I wanted to be an inspirational,
motivational, and educational speaker.

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And my motto was what you'll never
learn in school, but desperately need

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to know because that's the kicker.

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I was a straight-A student.

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I got what's called the President's Award.

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It's behind me, signed by George W. Bush.

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It means you get straight A's through all
report cards, 16 report cards straight.

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Four years straight.

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All of high school.

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I graduated, you know,
the top in my class.

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Not the very top, but close to the top.

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And why didn't I learn anything
about self-improvement or personal

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growth or personal development?

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Why didn't I learn habits and goal setting
and productivity and all these things?

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Courage, humility,
vulnerability, character, virtue,

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time management.

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Where were these courses?

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: Finance.

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Michael: Yep.

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Alan: And so I dedicated my life from
that moment on what success means

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to me now is, and you mentioned, I
appreciate it, the sort of podcast,

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Next Level University, all the stuff.

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: I coach 28 business owners now
and we produce over 80 podcasts now.

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So.

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My new success definition is reaching
my full potential and helping others do

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the same through personal development,
self-improvement, and personal growth.

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: Not just external achievement.

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External achievement too,

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Michael: Yeah.

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Alan: but external achievement
as a byproduct of who you become

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rather than external achievement
at the expense of your core values

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or at the expense of who you are.

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Michael: Right.

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Yeah, it's an incredible story.

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And not one that I think a lot of
people have experienced in full, right?

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There have been people who have
been in car accidents, there have

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been people who have lost a parent.

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There have been people who've
had, you know, difficult parental

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relationships or witnessed
difficult parental relationships.

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But you kind of had 'em all, right,
and they're all sandwiched within

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not a long period of time, you know,

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Alan: Yeah.

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Michael: within two,
two and a half decades.

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What really jumps out at me is you
said that after your car accident,

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that the first thing that came outta
your mouth was you got the second

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chance that your dad never got.

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Alan: Hundred percent.

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Yep.

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Michael: You dealt with something
tragic when you were young and that

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happened to you in a different way as
an adult, and your response at that

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point was, I have another chance.

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Alan: Mm-hmm.

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Michael: Right?

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Like you could have been like, I'm cursed.

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This is not gonna work.

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I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing.

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Or like, I already got a solid job.

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This is it.

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Alan: Yeah.

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Michael: That's fine, but you said you
saw your a second chance in yourself

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Alan: Mm-hmm.

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Michael: and then you took
advantage of it, right?

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Like, you could say the right
things, but then not do it.

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Alan: Yep.

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Michael: Right, and, so to me, it was
so interesting and inspiring is that

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you didn't just give up each time.

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Each time you just dealt with what
was in front of you and kept moving

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forward and kept trying to get better.

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So, even when you were in high school
and things changed for you, and

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you weren't sure how you were gonna
get to college, well, you just kept

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working at it and working at it,
you kept taking the steps, right?

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And it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going
to just kind of like, I'm not gonna

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be able to get into college, or I'm
gonna be able to get into college.

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I'm not gonna be able to afford
it, so I might as well just coast.

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No, you

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Alan: Yeah.

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Michael: just, you doubled down on
putting in the work, putting in the effort

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knowing that there's always still another
opportunity in front of you, right?

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Alan: Yeah, and I
appreciate you sharing that.

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And I, I'm 37 now and I
co-, now I've coached.

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I have a, I call it my magic
number: 6,913 coaching sessions.

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I update it every day.

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I track it every day.

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I've been tracking it for 11 years,
and so almost 7,000 hours of one-on-one

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coaching with people from all different
industries, all different countries all

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over the world, New Zealand, Canada, you
name it, and what I've come to understand,

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and this is challenging to share,
'cause I think it comes off pretentious,

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Michael: Sure.

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Alan: I definitely realize
how unique that is now.

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Michael: Mm-hmm.

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Alan: Because there's something called an
ACE score, Adverse Childhood Experiences,

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and I had a very high ACE score.

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I had a very challenging childhood.

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Statistically speaking, it was like
really, really, really challenging.

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There was some good things if anyone
were listening from my childhood,

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there were some good things,

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: but for the most part, it
was mostly pain and suffering.

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Michael: Yeah.

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Alan: And I think you hit the nail on
the head there with, I didn't know this

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consciously, but I had high self-efficacy.

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High self-efficacy is the
psychological term for self-belief.

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And what self-efficacy means is your, your
mindset unconsciously and subconsciously.

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Like I didn't consciously decide,
okay, I'm gonna aim higher,

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work harder, and get smarter.

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I just had this insatiable desire
to climb out of the dark holes, and

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I do realize how weird that is now.

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I didn't know how weird that was because
I would see people who I thought had

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tremendous potential that squandered it.

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Michael: Right.

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Alan: And to be honest with you, I
think I squandered my potential too.

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I, I, I'm not joking.

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I'm, I'm, let me, let me share
the two sides of this coin.

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Michael: Sure.

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Alan: I drank too much and too often.

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I had high school friends and college
friends and corporate friends,

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and I had a thriving social life.

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Before the car accident, one of the
reasons I was so upset in the car

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accident, I had a lot of regret and
my, one of my, my number one regret

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was I didn't reach my full potential.

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Like I, I invested time and effort
into things that were trivial:

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persons, places, things and
ideas that were not constructive.

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Michael: Yep.

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Alan: You know, too much partying.

00:11:49.313 --> 00:11:50.513
Too much nonsense.

00:11:50.543 --> 00:11:53.693
And so I promised myself after that
car accident, the second chance my dad

00:11:53.693 --> 00:11:56.258
never got, I made a conscious promise.

00:11:56.828 --> 00:11:58.538
When my stepdad left, it wasn't conscious.

00:11:58.538 --> 00:12:01.328
It was just my unconscious
being like, okay, prove myself.

00:12:01.718 --> 00:12:02.648
Find a way.

00:12:02.828 --> 00:12:04.058
I've always been that type.

00:12:04.388 --> 00:12:05.168
Just find a way.

00:12:05.168 --> 00:12:05.888
Never stop.

00:12:05.888 --> 00:12:06.428
Driven.

00:12:06.788 --> 00:12:07.388
Achiever.

00:12:08.123 --> 00:12:08.363
Michael: Yep.

00:12:08.588 --> 00:12:14.598
Alan: But when at 26, it was definitely a
conscious choice of, okay, I have massive

00:12:14.648 --> 00:12:18.458
pain associated with the fact that I have
totally squandered my true potential.

00:12:18.968 --> 00:12:25.058
And the one life that I got,
I almost just lost, and my dad

00:12:25.058 --> 00:12:26.228
didn't get this second chance.

00:12:26.228 --> 00:12:27.338
So I'm not gonna screw this up.

00:12:27.758 --> 00:12:30.698
And the promise I made to myself
11 years ago was I'm gonna put

00:12:30.698 --> 00:12:31.988
it all on the court every day.

00:12:32.408 --> 00:12:35.588
I'm gonna do all I can with all I
have to reach my full potential.

00:12:37.823 --> 00:12:41.423
Before the car accident, if I couldn't
look myself in the mirror and say

00:12:41.423 --> 00:12:43.853
I did all I could, because quite
frankly, the part that people don't

00:12:43.853 --> 00:12:45.593
tell you is some people feel gifted.

00:12:46.193 --> 00:12:50.813
Some things come easy to, like straight
A's In high school, I, I definitely

00:12:50.813 --> 00:12:54.593
worked harder than the average bear,
and I definitely did what I had to do

00:12:54.593 --> 00:12:56.663
to like achieve that president's award.

00:12:57.623 --> 00:13:00.713
But I was definitely resting on talent.

00:13:00.713 --> 00:13:02.333
Like I did not put it all on the court.

00:13:02.333 --> 00:13:04.343
I could have, I could
have worked way harder.

00:13:04.423 --> 00:13:04.713
Michael: Yeah.

00:13:05.213 --> 00:13:08.123
Alan: And, so, from 26 to 37,

00:13:10.673 --> 00:13:15.383
I can honestly look myself in the mirror
and say that I have done all I can

00:13:15.383 --> 00:13:19.193
with all I have to date from 26 to 37.

00:13:19.193 --> 00:13:20.993
Before that, absolutely not.

00:13:20.993 --> 00:13:23.153
Just absolutely squandering my potential.

00:13:23.153 --> 00:13:25.178
Now, people get upset when
I say that 'cause they're

00:13:25.178 --> 00:13:26.003
like, well, what do you mean?

00:13:26.003 --> 00:13:27.413
You were so amazing and you did.

00:13:27.803 --> 00:13:29.483
Listen, we all have different potential.

00:13:30.098 --> 00:13:30.278
Michael: Yep.

00:13:30.533 --> 00:13:35.843
Alan: The truth is I 100% was resting
on talent in a lot of that stuff.

00:13:36.128 --> 00:13:36.338
Michael: Right.

00:13:36.353 --> 00:13:39.293
Alan: And I wasn't putting
it all on the court.

00:13:39.293 --> 00:13:41.303
And I think that, that,
that eats away at you

00:13:41.888 --> 00:13:42.158
Michael: Sure.

00:13:42.323 --> 00:13:44.933
Alan: On the inside when you know
you're not doing all you can, when

00:13:44.933 --> 00:13:47.363
you know you're leaving potential
on the table, when you know you

00:13:47.363 --> 00:13:48.653
could make a difference, but don't.

00:13:48.653 --> 00:13:52.253
I think that that eats away at you, and
I don't think you can live a wholehearted

00:13:52.253 --> 00:13:56.243
life unless you're doing all you can
with all you have to better your best.

00:13:56.653 --> 00:14:02.738
Michael: Right, and so your potential
before your accident was more based,

00:14:03.653 --> 00:14:06.353
if I'm understanding this correctly,
more based on external success.

00:14:06.563 --> 00:14:07.373
How much money can I make?

00:14:07.373 --> 00:14:09.883
How far can I rise
within this corporation?

00:14:10.633 --> 00:14:11.313
How much of a social life can I have?

00:14:11.363 --> 00:14:12.218
Alan: And my social life.

00:14:12.558 --> 00:14:12.778
Yep.

00:14:13.103 --> 00:14:13.493
Michael: Right?

00:14:14.423 --> 00:14:21.653
Then, after your accident, that external
success shifted in you and to me it

00:14:21.653 --> 00:14:27.833
felt, it feels more like you are seeking
more internal fulfillment, that you

00:14:27.833 --> 00:14:33.053
are trying to do the things that are
making you feel more accomplished,

00:14:33.123 --> 00:14:40.523
that feel better emotionally, mentally,
and just more fulfilled in general.

00:14:40.883 --> 00:14:45.453
And you, you talk about like trying
to find that balance, right, of

00:14:46.123 --> 00:14:47.943
external success, internal fulfillment.

00:14:48.803 --> 00:14:55.403
Where do you see people get that balance
wrong most often between external

00:14:55.463 --> 00:14:57.053
success and internal fulfillment?

00:14:58.043 --> 00:15:01.193
Alan: Yeah, so I think it, it
comes down to the vanity metrics.

00:15:02.783 --> 00:15:06.173
Somewhere, and again, I, I, I know a
lot of your listeners are in the US

00:15:06.173 --> 00:15:09.203
so I'll speak to the US experience
'cause that's the one that I had.

00:15:09.953 --> 00:15:11.483
And again, in Massachusetts, right?

00:15:13.073 --> 00:15:16.853
In high school we kind of re, it
really blossoms and I've given

00:15:16.853 --> 00:15:20.123
speeches at high schools and I
got the privilege once to speak in

00:15:20.123 --> 00:15:24.788
Milwaukee to eighth and ninth graders.

00:15:24.998 --> 00:15:27.518
No, seven and eighth for one assembly.

00:15:27.668 --> 00:15:34.658
300 students, ninth and 10th, 11th
and 12th, all in the same day.

00:15:35.138 --> 00:15:36.878
And then I got to give
a training to the staff.

00:15:38.018 --> 00:15:39.758
So it was a four speech day.

00:15:40.478 --> 00:15:44.018
But the fascinating thing was the
middle schoolers were more open-minded.

00:15:45.548 --> 00:15:46.868
They didn't have that ego yet.

00:15:47.528 --> 00:15:47.878
Michael: Right.

00:15:48.308 --> 00:15:52.478
Alan: I, the, the speech was perseverance
and a growth mindset and thinking

00:15:52.478 --> 00:15:53.648
long term, something like that.

00:15:54.178 --> 00:15:54.468
Michael: Okay.

00:15:54.578 --> 00:15:56.258
Alan: And it was all about personal
development, self-improvement,

00:15:56.258 --> 00:15:57.038
and personal growth.

00:15:57.188 --> 00:16:00.188
And this basically what I said
to Kev, my business partner,

00:16:00.188 --> 00:16:01.268
we gave the speech together.

00:16:02.498 --> 00:16:06.698
The middle schoolers were very
open to it and well received.

00:16:07.793 --> 00:16:09.113
So that's the seventh and eighth graders.

00:16:09.293 --> 00:16:12.083
The ninth and 10th, it was a little
worse, which made no sense 'cause it

00:16:12.083 --> 00:16:14.573
was the second time we gave the speech
and I thought we did a better job.

00:16:14.898 --> 00:16:15.158
Michael: Yep.

00:16:15.383 --> 00:16:19.763
Alan: So I was in the green room
going, what the heck just happened?

00:16:19.763 --> 00:16:23.063
Like we, we did a way better
job, but it was received worse.

00:16:23.363 --> 00:16:25.913
And then the juniors and seniors
at 11th and 12th might as well

00:16:25.913 --> 00:16:26.843
have been making fun of us.

00:16:27.863 --> 00:16:31.853
And so that was the one of the best
lessons ever is the ego develops.

00:16:32.528 --> 00:16:34.598
It's not cool to better yourself.

00:16:34.868 --> 00:16:38.948
It's cool to not give an f and good luck,
by the way, if that's your attitude.

00:16:39.368 --> 00:16:41.048
You're in so much
trouble long term, right?

00:16:41.378 --> 00:16:47.498
10, 20, 30 years of that, you're in so
much trouble, but the reason I mention

00:16:47.498 --> 00:16:51.638
all of that is the fulfillment thing.

00:16:52.328 --> 00:16:57.413
In high school, we all start caring
about what other people think of

00:16:57.413 --> 00:16:58.703
us more than what we think of us.

00:16:59.213 --> 00:16:59.573
Michael: Right.

00:16:59.903 --> 00:17:01.283
Alan: And we all have to
live in these two worlds.

00:17:01.283 --> 00:17:04.163
We have to live in the real
world and the social world.

00:17:04.673 --> 00:17:07.553
The social world is your Instagram photos.

00:17:08.093 --> 00:17:10.763
The real world is how you feel about
yourself when you're by yourself.

00:17:12.113 --> 00:17:13.823
The social world is the wedding photos.

00:17:13.913 --> 00:17:15.683
The real world is the actual marriage.

00:17:16.178 --> 00:17:16.398
Michael: Yep.

00:17:16.853 --> 00:17:21.623
Alan: The social world is your,
I don't know, profile photo.

00:17:22.133 --> 00:17:26.708
The real world is how you actually
look in the mirror in the morning.

00:17:27.878 --> 00:17:30.278
The problem is the syntax both matter.

00:17:30.818 --> 00:17:31.088
Michael: Yeah.

00:17:31.198 --> 00:17:31.378
Alan: They do.

00:17:31.388 --> 00:17:35.558
Your reputation matters, of course,
but you have a thousand reputations.

00:17:35.558 --> 00:17:36.548
You only have one character.

00:17:36.728 --> 00:17:39.398
You give a speech in front of a thousand
people, they have a thousand opinions of

00:17:39.398 --> 00:17:44.048
you, but you are still only one character,
and so it needs to be from the inside out.

00:17:44.048 --> 00:17:45.278
So syntax matters.

00:17:46.028 --> 00:17:49.868
In high school, we care more about
our reputation than our character.

00:17:50.873 --> 00:17:53.993
We tend to, very few
people can reverse that.

00:17:53.993 --> 00:17:54.623
It's brutal

00:17:54.983 --> 00:17:55.203
Michael: Yep.

00:17:55.343 --> 00:17:57.653
Alan: 'cause you're just trying to
win the social game in high school,

00:17:57.683 --> 00:17:58.883
which is why high school is so awful.

00:18:00.083 --> 00:18:00.863
At least it was for me.

00:18:00.863 --> 00:18:01.973
You think I look young now.

00:18:03.983 --> 00:18:06.803
I was a prepubescent loser in high school.

00:18:08.033 --> 00:18:11.843
But luckily I played the long game,
and I figured this out eventually.

00:18:11.843 --> 00:18:15.533
So I would say that's the answer is that
that's the thing that people get wrong.

00:18:15.948 --> 00:18:16.238
Michael: Yeah.

00:18:16.253 --> 00:18:21.938
Alan: You are so focused on looking
good rather than getting better,

00:18:22.523 --> 00:18:22.763
Michael: Right.

00:18:22.988 --> 00:18:26.168
Alan: that you actually aren't
looking good eventually because

00:18:26.168 --> 00:18:26.978
you're not getting better.

00:18:27.488 --> 00:18:32.468
I would much rather you spend the next
decade working on getting better in

00:18:32.468 --> 00:18:35.408
real life and then let that ripple
out into your reputation and your

00:18:35.408 --> 00:18:39.668
Instagram and your podcast and whatever
than the opposite, because eventually

00:18:39.668 --> 00:18:40.988
you get stuck and you have to hide.

00:18:40.988 --> 00:18:43.958
I know I, I used to do fitness modeling.

00:18:43.958 --> 00:18:48.923
I did 43 photo shoots, and even the
models don't look like they seem to

00:18:48.923 --> 00:18:54.983
look, and, and they are now trapped
by their own inability to, to be real.

00:18:55.943 --> 00:18:59.753
When you edit the photos and you, you take
a hundred photos, you pick the best, you

00:18:59.753 --> 00:19:04.373
know, 15, and then you edit them, and then
you paint on whatever, and, and then the

00:19:04.373 --> 00:19:08.063
makeup and the, all that, all of a sudden
now you can't let anyone see you in person

00:19:08.543 --> 00:19:08.843
Michael: Right.

00:19:09.153 --> 00:19:12.083
Alan: Because it's, you know, you
go from this to all the way down

00:19:12.083 --> 00:19:16.493
and it's, so, I would rather you
be better in the real world and be

00:19:16.493 --> 00:19:21.458
undervalued than be overvalued with
great branding and marketing at

00:19:21.458 --> 00:19:22.718
the expense of who you really are.

00:19:22.718 --> 00:19:27.308
And so that's the number one thing
I see that people screw up, is you

00:19:27.308 --> 00:19:28.808
need to be from the inside out.

00:19:28.838 --> 00:19:32.768
It has to be my marriage first,
wedding photo second, metaphorically.

00:19:33.073 --> 00:19:33.273
Michael: Right.

00:19:33.833 --> 00:19:36.823
Yeah, it's such an interesting
comparison the di-, the dichotomy between

00:19:37.183 --> 00:19:44.798
reputation and character is challenging
to manage on a daily basis, and,

00:19:44.858 --> 00:19:45.158
Alan: Oh yeah.

00:19:45.568 --> 00:19:49.658
Michael: especially, as a dad,
like it's not just yourself, right?

00:19:50.048 --> 00:19:52.748
You're representing your family, right?

00:19:52.748 --> 00:19:57.428
Like your kids are representation of
you, and what they post on social media

00:19:57.428 --> 00:19:59.798
versus who they are as human beings.

00:20:00.908 --> 00:20:05.888
And it's so easy to fall into
the trap of, oh, I need to show

00:20:05.888 --> 00:20:07.568
off like I am the perfect dad.

00:20:07.568 --> 00:20:09.248
I'm the, you know, dad of the year.

00:20:09.248 --> 00:20:12.188
I deserve that little trophy that
everybody gets, right with the little,

00:20:12.698 --> 00:20:13.898
you know, plastic plaque on it.

00:20:14.798 --> 00:20:16.418
But that's not reality, right?

00:20:16.418 --> 00:20:25.418
At the end of the day, what you show to
others with on Instagram or TikTok or

00:20:25.488 --> 00:20:31.298
wherever you are, right, that is as real
or as artificial as you wanna make it,

00:20:31.408 --> 00:20:31.628
Alan: Yep.

00:20:31.958 --> 00:20:35.238
Michael: but where you show up for
the people you care about, right, when

00:20:35.238 --> 00:20:38.843
you're there, when your kids have an
issue, when your partner has an issue,

00:20:39.068 --> 00:20:39.488
Alan: Mm-hmm.

00:20:39.703 --> 00:20:42.173
Michael: when your partner needs
something, or your kids have a bad day

00:20:42.173 --> 00:20:46.823
at school, knowing that you are there,
that's the part that's important,

00:20:46.943 --> 00:20:47.363
Alan: Mm-hmm.

00:20:47.573 --> 00:20:49.073
Michael: not what you post on Instagram.

00:20:49.343 --> 00:20:51.503
It's such an interesting comparison.

00:20:51.503 --> 00:20:57.383
'cause oftentimes we tend to look at 'em
one right as they are kind of one and

00:20:57.383 --> 00:21:01.763
the same as the pictures I'm putting up
on social media are how I live my life.

00:21:01.853 --> 00:21:02.303
That's not true.

00:21:02.798 --> 00:21:03.938
Alan: No, not at all.

00:21:03.968 --> 00:21:04.478
Never.

00:21:04.568 --> 00:21:05.498
Never, never, never.

00:21:05.558 --> 00:21:05.708
Nope.

00:21:05.738 --> 00:21:08.798
Michael: And it doesn't matter if
you're in high school or you're a

00:21:08.798 --> 00:21:10.348
father of high schoolers, right?

00:21:10.378 --> 00:21:17.288
It's still the same challenge, You
want people to look at you positively

00:21:18.578 --> 00:21:23.568
and, but that isn't what, at the end
of the day, that's not what matters.

00:21:23.728 --> 00:21:26.018
Showing up for the people
that matter to you.

00:21:27.023 --> 00:21:30.653
That has a lot more importance, I
think, than the vanity metrics of

00:21:30.773 --> 00:21:32.153
how many likes did I get on my post?

00:21:32.153 --> 00:21:35.603
Or, how many comments
did, did people make?

00:21:35.603 --> 00:21:37.463
Or you know, how big is my audience today?

00:21:38.843 --> 00:21:41.963
At the end of the day, that
doesn't really matter, right?

00:21:42.338 --> 00:21:42.908
Alan: So

00:21:42.973 --> 00:21:45.233
Michael: It's showing up for the one
that matters to you, like being there

00:21:45.233 --> 00:21:49.643
when you're kid gets home from school,
or being there when your partner has a,

00:21:50.258 --> 00:21:52.763
a, a tough break at work, that matters.

00:21:53.708 --> 00:21:57.308
Alan: What I try to share with my clients
is make sure you're spending 80% of your

00:21:57.308 --> 00:22:03.308
time and effort and money on making your
real life great and only 20% of your time,

00:22:03.308 --> 00:22:04.808
effort, and money on making it look great.

00:22:06.173 --> 00:22:07.463
Most people have that flipped

00:22:08.228 --> 00:22:08.388
Michael: yep.

00:22:08.513 --> 00:22:10.313
Alan: because the truth
is they do both matter.

00:22:10.523 --> 00:22:12.443
My, my company has a brand.

00:22:12.923 --> 00:22:14.783
A brand is nothing more than a reputation.

00:22:15.158 --> 00:22:15.508
Michael: Right.

00:22:15.893 --> 00:22:18.863
Alan: So you know why, why
the awards in the background?

00:22:18.863 --> 00:22:19.823
Why the nice shirt?

00:22:20.123 --> 00:22:21.323
Why the nice microphone?

00:22:21.713 --> 00:22:24.443
My camera's been a little wonky on
this with the auto exposure, but

00:22:25.828 --> 00:22:29.903
what I used to think is it's like
we start out in life and we think

00:22:29.903 --> 00:22:31.433
all that matters is your reputation.

00:22:31.808 --> 00:22:31.988
Michael: Yep.

00:22:32.573 --> 00:22:34.823
Alan: And you are so concerned
with what people think of you.

00:22:35.543 --> 00:22:36.653
That's the adolescent mind.

00:22:36.653 --> 00:22:38.543
It's social, tribal belonging.

00:22:38.543 --> 00:22:38.933
I get it.

00:22:38.993 --> 00:22:39.353
I get it.

00:22:39.803 --> 00:22:41.123
Then you are like, you know what?

00:22:41.123 --> 00:22:41.933
Screw that.

00:22:42.053 --> 00:22:44.843
And you have a quarter life crisis
or midlife crisis, and you realize, I

00:22:44.843 --> 00:22:45.983
don't care what anyone thinks of me.

00:22:45.983 --> 00:22:48.413
And then you realize you're gonna
go broke if that's the case.

00:22:48.683 --> 00:22:50.153
You gotta care what
your boss thinks of you.

00:22:50.423 --> 00:22:52.133
You gotta care about what
the economy thinks of you.

00:22:52.133 --> 00:22:55.553
You gotta care about what the
agents, if you're an actor, I'm, I'm

00:22:55.553 --> 00:23:00.383
coaching an actor after this, think
of you, but it can't be number one.

00:23:00.383 --> 00:23:02.633
So you go from you overswing, I overswung.

00:23:02.663 --> 00:23:05.843
I went from like, I care what
people think of me in high school

00:23:05.843 --> 00:23:08.873
to after my car accident, I don't
care what anyone thinks of me.

00:23:09.203 --> 00:23:11.663
I'm not gonna worry about
perception and status whatsoever.

00:23:11.663 --> 00:23:14.603
And then I realized, oh my goodness,
if I'm gonna be a fitness coach, a

00:23:14.603 --> 00:23:17.818
fitness model, and a fitness competitor,
they need to believe that I'm great.

00:23:18.623 --> 00:23:22.943
Which means I need to showcase some of
myself and sell the product, and market

00:23:22.943 --> 00:23:24.293
the product, and brand the product.

00:23:24.833 --> 00:23:27.803
And then hopefully you find this
middle ground eventually where you're

00:23:27.803 --> 00:23:32.513
like, listen, both your character
and your reputation matter, but

00:23:32.513 --> 00:23:33.713
make sure it's character first.

00:23:34.068 --> 00:23:34.418
Michael: Right.

00:23:34.583 --> 00:23:35.663
Alan: But they do both matter.

00:23:35.723 --> 00:23:38.753
And yes, no one's Instagram
account, including my own...

00:23:38.993 --> 00:23:39.143
Michael: Yeah.

00:23:39.353 --> 00:23:40.613
Alan: This is the best quote.

00:23:40.643 --> 00:23:43.373
It's so simple, but it's so profound
if you just get this and get it

00:23:43.373 --> 00:23:43.673
good.

00:23:44.723 --> 00:23:46.583
Everyone's social media.

00:23:47.453 --> 00:23:48.503
Everyone's media.

00:23:48.773 --> 00:23:53.303
Everyone's media, every movie, every,
everything is what they want you to see.

00:23:53.828 --> 00:23:54.098
Michael: Yep.

00:23:54.293 --> 00:23:54.803
Alan: That's it.

00:23:55.073 --> 00:23:56.543
Better or worse, up or down.

00:23:56.753 --> 00:23:59.453
Some people inflate, some people
deflate, some people omit.

00:24:00.173 --> 00:24:02.633
The point is it's literally
what they want you to see.

00:24:02.633 --> 00:24:04.403
My Instagram is all fitness stuff.

00:24:04.523 --> 00:24:08.393
It's what I want you to see, and I
love fitness, and I think that's great.

00:24:08.828 --> 00:24:09.038
Michael: Right.

00:24:09.083 --> 00:24:10.523
Alan: I'm not making it
right, wrong, or indifferent.

00:24:10.523 --> 00:24:12.413
What I am saying is
it's not my whole life.

00:24:13.193 --> 00:24:13.403
Michael: Yep.

00:24:13.643 --> 00:24:16.188
Alan: It's one flavor of my life, right?

00:24:16.763 --> 00:24:17.213
Michael: Absolutely.

00:24:17.288 --> 00:24:20.648
Alan: And we have multifaceted
lives, but we're known in the

00:24:20.648 --> 00:24:21.638
marketplace for one thing.

00:24:21.638 --> 00:24:22.868
Serena Williams is tennis.

00:24:23.018 --> 00:24:24.578
Oprah Winfrey's mass media, right?

00:24:25.013 --> 00:24:25.163
Michael: Yep.

00:24:25.538 --> 00:24:27.608
Alan: You get known in the
marketplace for one thing.

00:24:28.088 --> 00:24:28.898
Mine is coaching.

00:24:30.638 --> 00:24:32.348
But that doesn't mean I'm just a coach.

00:24:32.993 --> 00:24:33.203
Michael: Right.

00:24:33.428 --> 00:24:37.448
Alan: And for the dads out there
listening, you are not just a plumber

00:24:37.448 --> 00:24:42.548
or just a dad or just a accountant or
you, you are multifaceted in real life,

00:24:42.968 --> 00:24:43.208
Michael: Yep.

00:24:43.478 --> 00:24:48.008
Alan: but then in your social life,
you're probably not because we all kind

00:24:48.008 --> 00:24:52.748
of put everybody in boxes just to get
through the day, because I don't know.

00:24:52.748 --> 00:24:54.458
We don't know Serena
Williams behind the scenes.

00:24:54.953 --> 00:24:55.613
Michael: Right, right.

00:24:55.613 --> 00:24:57.743
We simplify with labels 'cause
we're balancing so many,

00:24:58.178 --> 00:24:58.418
Alan: Yep.

00:24:58.493 --> 00:24:59.053
Michael: So many different things.

00:24:59.053 --> 00:25:03.263
I, I, what I really find interesting you
said that you overswung, you know, from

00:25:04.433 --> 00:25:07.103
one, one side of things to the other.

00:25:07.348 --> 00:25:11.678
And that is, I think that's natural,
right, of like, we try to course

00:25:11.678 --> 00:25:14.798
correct, but we don't know any better,
so we go all the way to the other end,

00:25:14.798 --> 00:25:15.088
Alan: Yeah.

00:25:15.128 --> 00:25:19.658
Michael: and the way we kind of find
that the, the right balance or the right

00:25:19.658 --> 00:25:22.328
alignment is through experience, right?

00:25:22.538 --> 00:25:26.258
We have to go through these
experiences of, you know, putting

00:25:26.258 --> 00:25:30.368
all our, you know, putting ourselves
way in one direction, realizing,

00:25:30.368 --> 00:25:32.348
well, maybe I overcorrected there.

00:25:32.573 --> 00:25:32.903
Alan: Yeah.

00:25:33.018 --> 00:25:34.068
Michael: Now I need to
dial it back, right?

00:25:34.238 --> 00:25:36.188
I don't need to be the extreme I
started at, but I also don't need

00:25:36.188 --> 00:25:37.718
to be extreme that I finish at.

00:25:38.048 --> 00:25:41.528
Somewhere in between, but you don't
know that until, until you do it.

00:25:41.978 --> 00:25:44.918
And you've spent, you know,
you've said you spent 6,000

00:25:44.918 --> 00:25:46.508
plus hours, almost 7,000 hours

00:25:46.588 --> 00:25:47.008
Alan: Mm-hmm.

00:25:47.148 --> 00:25:48.018
Michael: of coaching high performers.

00:25:48.548 --> 00:25:53.603
What patterns do you see in these
pe-, people that you coach who

00:25:53.663 --> 00:25:57.233
look successful on paper, but
maybe they do feel disconnected

00:25:57.653 --> 00:25:58.978
at home or on the social front?

00:26:00.743 --> 00:26:01.133
Alan: Yeah.

00:26:01.133 --> 00:26:05.363
So one of the things that I think
I can provide, just because the

00:26:05.363 --> 00:26:09.593
cool part about my job is I get to
see the Instagram and the person.

00:26:10.338 --> 00:26:10.558
Michael: Yep.

00:26:11.003 --> 00:26:12.923
Alan: I, I get to see the
Instagram and the bank account,

00:26:13.168 --> 00:26:13.388
Michael: Yep.

00:26:13.853 --> 00:26:14.303
Alan: Right?

00:26:14.753 --> 00:26:15.353
So,

00:26:17.453 --> 00:26:19.253
I get to see the Ferrari and the debt.

00:26:19.733 --> 00:26:24.143
No, but the truth is there's two
sides to every coin, and I think

00:26:24.143 --> 00:26:27.578
that it's been really cool for
me to have these realizations.

00:26:27.578 --> 00:26:32.438
I feel very grateful that my coaching has
taught me so much of these principles,

00:26:32.798 --> 00:26:37.358
because it would be really easy to, to
assume everyone else's life is awesome

00:26:37.358 --> 00:26:42.728
and yours sucks when you're comparing
your real life to their highlight reel.

00:26:43.238 --> 00:26:43.418
Michael: Yep.

00:26:44.378 --> 00:26:46.118
Alan: And I just don't do that anymore.

00:26:46.118 --> 00:26:49.478
Not because I'm so special,
but because I see both.

00:26:50.108 --> 00:26:53.198
And so now, I mean, I literally
have coached famous people.

00:26:53.198 --> 00:26:53.798
I've coached

00:26:55.853 --> 00:26:57.443
two supermodels at this stage.

00:26:57.833 --> 00:27:00.593
Like they, they're businesses.

00:27:00.833 --> 00:27:02.903
I'm trying to help them grow their
businesses, and some of them I don't

00:27:02.903 --> 00:27:04.763
even want to coach 'cause I don't
think they're necessarily good for the

00:27:04.763 --> 00:27:11.543
world, but it's very clear to me at
this stage that the social world in the

00:27:11.543 --> 00:27:13.883
real world are very, very different.

00:27:14.063 --> 00:27:15.198
Some people, they're not that different.

00:27:16.028 --> 00:27:16.298
Michael: Right.

00:27:16.428 --> 00:27:18.248
Alan: Some people are very
authentic on social media.

00:27:18.578 --> 00:27:21.188
Some people are more full of
it than you could imagine.

00:27:21.188 --> 00:27:22.118
It is bad.

00:27:22.238 --> 00:27:22.598
Okay.

00:27:22.598 --> 00:27:23.048
Really.

00:27:23.048 --> 00:27:23.438
Seriously.

00:27:23.438 --> 00:27:24.788
And those are the people
I try not to coach.

00:27:25.118 --> 00:27:26.258
I don't coach, actually.

00:27:26.588 --> 00:27:29.108
I used to try not to because I
needed to grow my business, right,

00:27:29.108 --> 00:27:32.018
but eventually it was like, you know
what, no, you're, you're outta here.

00:27:32.648 --> 00:27:37.028
So the point that I'm making though,
to answer your original question, the

00:27:37.028 --> 00:27:40.088
insight that I can give everyone is

00:27:42.248 --> 00:27:45.848
everyone's, I call it the inverse 10 law.

00:27:46.538 --> 00:27:52.478
If you see someone on social media
who looks 10x successful, 10 outta

00:27:52.478 --> 00:27:56.588
10 successful, the top of the bell
curve, they most likely are one 10th

00:27:56.588 --> 00:28:00.998
as successful as they look, which
still might be successful, right?

00:28:00.998 --> 00:28:02.948
If someone looks like a
billionaire, they still probably

00:28:03.008 --> 00:28:04.358
are a multimillionaire, okay?

00:28:05.738 --> 00:28:08.518
What I've found is fascinating
is the opposite is also true.

00:28:09.458 --> 00:28:13.433
If someone doesn't look very successful
on social media, they're almost always

00:28:13.433 --> 00:28:15.383
10 times more successful than they look.

00:28:16.553 --> 00:28:21.083
I, I have a, someone I coached, she,
she, we calculated her portfolio

00:28:21.083 --> 00:28:24.503
over time and it's projected for
11 million by the time she retires

00:28:24.838 --> 00:28:25.058
Michael: Yep.

00:28:25.163 --> 00:28:27.233
Alan: and she drives a Toyota
with paint chipping off it.

00:28:28.643 --> 00:28:31.583
Like that's the fascinating thing is
she's just not good at looking good.

00:28:31.643 --> 00:28:35.183
She's good at actually getting good, and
she's never even made more than 25 bucks.

00:28:35.183 --> 00:28:36.833
She's just been investing
since she was a child.

00:28:37.583 --> 00:28:40.463
Her dad was in finance and you know,
they started, they started very young.

00:28:41.573 --> 00:28:44.688
But that would be an insight
I would give everybody is

00:28:44.798 --> 00:28:45.038
Michael: Sure.

00:28:47.963 --> 00:28:51.233
Alan: understand that if, if
someone, if you think someone's

00:28:51.233 --> 00:28:52.733
inflating, they probably are.

00:28:53.408 --> 00:28:53.708
Michael: Right.

00:28:53.873 --> 00:28:56.213
Alan: And if you think someone's
deflating, they probably are.

00:28:56.213 --> 00:28:57.293
And the truth is in the middle.

00:28:57.743 --> 00:29:04.403
Back to what you said about the swinging,
I think maturity is those swings are still

00:29:04.403 --> 00:29:05.903
happening, but they're not as drastic.

00:29:06.158 --> 00:29:06.578
Michael: Yep.

00:29:06.803 --> 00:29:09.413
Alan: So in the beginning, you go
from like screaming into your pillow

00:29:09.413 --> 00:29:12.503
in your room, crying hysterically
to happy as hell, eating dinner.

00:29:12.938 --> 00:29:13.208
Michael: Right.

00:29:13.538 --> 00:29:14.528
Alan: And then all the way back.

00:29:14.528 --> 00:29:17.198
And it's like we all go into this
world naked, scared, and ignorant.

00:29:17.648 --> 00:29:19.478
We don't know ourselves,
others in the world yet.

00:29:19.508 --> 00:29:20.648
We don't know how any of it works.

00:29:20.648 --> 00:29:23.438
So we're like, okay, let me,
you know, oh, I meet a boy.

00:29:23.438 --> 00:29:23.708
Okay.

00:29:23.708 --> 00:29:24.428
I don't really like boys.

00:29:24.428 --> 00:29:25.718
All right, let's try girls.

00:29:25.718 --> 00:29:26.648
I don't really like girls either.

00:29:26.918 --> 00:29:28.088
And, and then you just swing.

00:29:29.438 --> 00:29:35.288
You just swing and you swing for the
fences, and you eventually realize

00:29:35.288 --> 00:29:37.778
like, okay, life is about swinging.

00:29:38.528 --> 00:29:42.098
You have to experiment, you have to
try new persons, places, things and

00:29:42.098 --> 00:29:46.808
ideas, but you shouldn't be always
over swinging to those huge extremes.

00:29:46.808 --> 00:29:51.398
And, and so I think we all learn
who we are through trial and error

00:29:51.668 --> 00:29:51.908
Michael: Yep.

00:29:51.908 --> 00:29:53.828
Alan: and then hopefully
also studying as well.

00:29:53.828 --> 00:29:55.628
Like, you don't have to
learn everything yourself.

00:29:55.628 --> 00:29:58.088
You don't have to, you don't
have to get hit by a car to

00:29:58.088 --> 00:29:59.378
know, to look both ways, right?

00:29:59.378 --> 00:30:00.488
You can read a book on it,

00:30:00.728 --> 00:30:00.998
Michael: Yep.

00:30:00.998 --> 00:30:04.538
Alan: but at the end of the day that would
be the other thing that I would say is

00:30:07.088 --> 00:30:11.888
you have to learn about yourself,
others in the world as much as possible,

00:30:11.888 --> 00:30:13.418
because we all have a mental map,

00:30:13.913 --> 00:30:14.093
Michael: yep.

00:30:14.468 --> 00:30:16.538
Alan: and some of us
have massive blind spots.

00:30:16.538 --> 00:30:18.508
So I always say we have three 4K TVs.

00:30:19.628 --> 00:30:21.458
One of them is yourself, self-awareness.

00:30:21.758 --> 00:30:25.568
One of them is others, people in
general, neuroscience, physiology,

00:30:25.568 --> 00:30:29.228
psychology, people, how they work,
behavioral economics, all this.

00:30:29.618 --> 00:30:31.178
And then you've got the world.

00:30:32.183 --> 00:30:33.593
8 billion people on planet Earth.

00:30:34.043 --> 00:30:35.453
195 countries.

00:30:35.813 --> 00:30:40.763
You know, how the earth works, how the
economy works, business, private versus

00:30:40.763 --> 00:30:44.453
public versus charity versus nonprofit
like you, a government, the whole

00:30:44.453 --> 00:30:45.833
nine, different types of government.

00:30:45.833 --> 00:30:48.953
You, so, some people,
we all have all three.

00:30:48.953 --> 00:30:49.823
We all need all three.

00:30:49.883 --> 00:30:52.553
But one of us, one of us has
like a staticky TV where you

00:30:52.553 --> 00:30:53.128
can't see almost anything.

00:30:53.693 --> 00:30:54.043
Michael: Right.

00:30:54.728 --> 00:30:58.688
Alan: One of them is like sort of regular
definition, and then one of them is 4K HD.

00:30:59.228 --> 00:31:01.838
For me, the 4K HD was science,
technology, engineering,

00:31:01.838 --> 00:31:03.098
mathematics, business, and finance.

00:31:03.098 --> 00:31:04.298
It was like knowing the world.

00:31:04.913 --> 00:31:05.153
Michael: Yep.

00:31:05.218 --> 00:31:09.218
Alan: I didn't know myself super
well, but I knew the world and after

00:31:09.218 --> 00:31:11.048
26 I started diving into the self.

00:31:11.468 --> 00:31:13.328
So the gold is buried
where you least wanna dig.

00:31:13.328 --> 00:31:16.598
Everyone I've ever coached, and I hope
this answers your original question,

00:31:16.598 --> 00:31:21.758
but everything, everyone I've ever
coached has one TV that's like staticky,

00:31:21.758 --> 00:31:23.168
and they don't know it almost at all.

00:31:23.288 --> 00:31:25.208
And a lot of people, they
just don't know the world.

00:31:25.628 --> 00:31:25.978
Michael: Right.

00:31:26.028 --> 00:31:27.098
Alan: They know themselves really well.

00:31:27.098 --> 00:31:29.768
They know people really well, they're
good at, but they don't know how the world

00:31:29.768 --> 00:31:31.208
works, so they can't win in the economy.

00:31:31.508 --> 00:31:33.968
And then other people know
exactly how the economy works.

00:31:33.968 --> 00:31:36.698
They're super successful
multimillionaires, and they don't

00:31:36.698 --> 00:31:38.168
have any self-awareness whatsoever.

00:31:38.168 --> 00:31:39.038
It's wild.

00:31:39.363 --> 00:31:44.863
Michael: That's such an interesting
metaphor of looking at how we see things.

00:31:45.583 --> 00:31:46.363
I'm curious, like,

00:31:48.493 --> 00:31:56.173
regardless of which of your TVs is 4K,
like, is there something that we, is

00:31:56.173 --> 00:32:00.313
there a habit that we could kind of
instill, start working on today that

00:32:00.313 --> 00:32:03.823
would help us make these pictures just
a little bit more clear for ourselves?

00:32:04.603 --> 00:32:10.213
Alan: The first one is honesty with
self and asking the question, which one

00:32:10.213 --> 00:32:15.943
of my TVs is the most blurry because
we all have a mental map of ourself,

00:32:15.943 --> 00:32:20.023
others in the world, but if you, if it's
inaccurate, it's like a self-driving car.

00:32:20.023 --> 00:32:22.183
If it thinks it's a road, but it's
actually a cliff, it's gonna keep

00:32:22.183 --> 00:32:23.593
driving off a cliff repeatedly.

00:32:23.818 --> 00:32:24.058
Michael: Right.

00:32:24.153 --> 00:32:25.753
Alan: People always say, like,
why aren't I more successful?

00:32:26.053 --> 00:32:27.463
Because you think inaccurately.

00:32:28.438 --> 00:32:28.618
Michael: Yep.

00:32:29.263 --> 00:32:34.063
Alan: Every time I've helped a
client become more successful, it

00:32:34.123 --> 00:32:39.493
always could come down to identifying
which part, which TV is blurry and

00:32:39.493 --> 00:32:41.593
why, and filling in that awareness.

00:32:41.878 --> 00:32:42.088
Michael: Sure.

00:32:42.598 --> 00:32:45.118
Alan: If you don't know yellow
snow is pee, you're gonna eat it.

00:32:45.538 --> 00:32:48.268
Like, it, it's just that I,
but that's with everything.

00:32:48.688 --> 00:32:49.168
Michael: Right.

00:32:49.228 --> 00:32:50.878
Alan: It's like playing chess when
you don't know what the pieces do.

00:32:51.178 --> 00:32:51.448
Michael: Right.

00:32:52.018 --> 00:32:53.488
Alan: And, and so what, what can you do?

00:32:53.488 --> 00:32:55.198
You just get really humble.

00:32:55.768 --> 00:32:55.948
Michael: Yep.

00:32:55.978 --> 00:32:58.348
Alan: Most people I've found

00:33:00.388 --> 00:33:05.608
have one of the TVs really, really good,
and the other ones seriously need work.

00:33:06.058 --> 00:33:06.808
Same with me.

00:33:07.018 --> 00:33:09.778
My TV that was really good
because my pain, my past was

00:33:09.778 --> 00:33:15.013
so painful, I unconsciously ran
from it by learning the world.

00:33:15.643 --> 00:33:15.853
Michael: Yep.

00:33:16.003 --> 00:33:17.863
Alan: I studied all the
forms of government.

00:33:17.863 --> 00:33:18.943
I studied philosophy.

00:33:19.213 --> 00:33:20.893
I studied economics.

00:33:20.893 --> 00:33:24.883
I studied, I mean, I, I was just like
curious about how the world works,

00:33:24.883 --> 00:33:26.533
science, technology, all this stuff.

00:33:26.533 --> 00:33:28.153
I built my first computer at 12.

00:33:28.633 --> 00:33:30.103
I loved video games.

00:33:30.103 --> 00:33:31.903
I loved learning about the world.

00:33:31.903 --> 00:33:35.533
I didn't like learning about myself
because that was where all the pain was.

00:33:36.058 --> 00:33:36.298
Michael: Right.

00:33:36.343 --> 00:33:38.323
Alan: I certainly didn't
like learning about my past.

00:33:38.728 --> 00:33:43.108
So I had to sort of go back to Pride
Rock, Lion King metaphor and face my past.

00:33:44.338 --> 00:33:49.138
But what I realized in hindsight is I was
so wrong about myself because I understood

00:33:49.138 --> 00:33:52.018
the world, but I didn't understand
where I fit, fit on the bell curve.

00:33:52.738 --> 00:33:54.478
Like I had no idea that I was gifted.

00:33:55.018 --> 00:33:56.128
I had no freaking clue.

00:33:56.128 --> 00:33:58.588
I just thought that things
were easy for people.

00:33:58.993 --> 00:33:59.263
Michael: Right.

00:33:59.278 --> 00:34:02.158
Alan: I used to wonder like, why are you
guys, why are you guys so bad at this?

00:34:02.158 --> 00:34:02.818
I don't understand.

00:34:03.628 --> 00:34:09.523
After coaching so many people, I
was like, oh, so you, this does

00:34:09.523 --> 00:34:10.963
not come naturally to you at all?

00:34:10.963 --> 00:34:11.593
Holy crap.

00:34:11.593 --> 00:34:15.433
And, and so through coaching others, I
started learning about myself and others,

00:34:15.673 --> 00:34:15.893
Michael: Yep.

00:34:16.243 --> 00:34:17.773
Alan: and then I fit that into the world.

00:34:17.983 --> 00:34:19.183
And I think that's the metaphor.

00:34:19.183 --> 00:34:23.323
So yeah, that's where you start is just
the, the humility to know that you don't

00:34:23.323 --> 00:34:25.423
know what you don't know is limitless.

00:34:25.423 --> 00:34:26.668
What you do know is limited.

00:34:26.668 --> 00:34:28.633
And the person who,

00:34:31.453 --> 00:34:33.973
everyone think of someone who
knows very little, but they

00:34:33.973 --> 00:34:35.023
bark like they know everything.

00:34:35.593 --> 00:34:35.833
Michael: Right.

00:34:36.493 --> 00:34:37.543
Alan: They've never studied.

00:34:37.573 --> 00:34:38.383
They suck.

00:34:38.653 --> 00:34:39.163
They suck.

00:34:39.343 --> 00:34:42.553
Those, they're arrogant and, and
ignorant, and those two come hand in hand.

00:34:42.758 --> 00:34:43.048
Michael: Yeah.

00:34:44.533 --> 00:34:47.803
Alan: I understand they're
trying to puffer fish.

00:34:47.803 --> 00:34:51.133
They're trying to pretend to
know because they wanna lead

00:34:51.133 --> 00:34:52.123
and they're deeply insecure.

00:34:52.483 --> 00:34:54.583
They're, a lot of times they're
bullies or they're entitled.

00:34:55.033 --> 00:34:58.513
At the end of the day, in real
life, you need to know that

00:34:58.948 --> 00:35:00.748
smoking cigarettes can kill you.

00:35:00.958 --> 00:35:05.338
You need to know that alcohol
is terrible for your brain.

00:35:05.338 --> 00:35:08.008
You need to know that sleep is the
most important thing for your brain.

00:35:08.008 --> 00:35:08.308
Why?

00:35:08.308 --> 00:35:10.978
Because if you don't know, you're not
gonna, you're not gonna live a great life.

00:35:11.398 --> 00:35:11.788
Michael: Yep.

00:35:11.978 --> 00:35:17.983
Alan: Knowledge is potential power,
and I think that most of us just

00:35:17.983 --> 00:35:19.693
don't know enough to do better.

00:35:19.723 --> 00:35:23.263
You have to know better to
do better, and I really do.

00:35:23.298 --> 00:35:24.253
I, I, this is what I say.

00:35:24.253 --> 00:35:26.173
Last piece, I say this to my clients.

00:35:26.173 --> 00:35:28.813
I say, anyone can teach
you how to lose weight.

00:35:29.143 --> 00:35:31.363
Almost no one can get
you to actually do it.

00:35:31.768 --> 00:35:32.038
Michael: Right.

00:35:32.743 --> 00:35:37.543
Alan: I'm poking the right, the right
button to get you to actually do it, to

00:35:37.543 --> 00:35:40.723
hold you accountable, to understand what
drives you, to understand why you do

00:35:40.723 --> 00:35:43.663
what you do, and why you don't do what
you don't, and like what you're avoiding

00:35:43.663 --> 00:35:46.213
and what you're after and what your
desires and fears and all this stuff.

00:35:46.213 --> 00:35:49.633
Like, you can reprogram a human
being just like you can reprogram a

00:35:49.633 --> 00:35:52.153
computer with their consent, of course.

00:35:52.998 --> 00:35:57.733
And you really can help someone flourish
when you help them identify the massive

00:35:57.733 --> 00:35:59.683
blind spots they have on these TVs.

00:35:59.998 --> 00:36:00.808
Michael: Yeah, absolutely.

00:36:00.868 --> 00:36:01.348
I love that.

00:36:01.708 --> 00:36:04.168
So we're gonna go from
humility to ridiculousness.

00:36:04.258 --> 00:36:05.368
We're gonna jump into our speed round.

00:36:05.368 --> 00:36:07.348
Five quick questions, have
nothing to do with anything.

00:36:07.573 --> 00:36:07.933
Alan: Nice.

00:36:08.638 --> 00:36:11.008
Michael: What's the first kids
show theme song that comes to mind?

00:36:12.638 --> 00:36:13.138
Alan: Hey Arnold.

00:36:13.688 --> 00:36:14.158
Michael: Hey Arnold.

00:36:14.188 --> 00:36:14.498
Okay.

00:36:15.138 --> 00:36:16.138
What was your very first job?

00:36:17.028 --> 00:36:20.893
Alan: I was a busboy and a cart kid
for a golf course called Crystal Lake.

00:36:21.358 --> 00:36:22.078
Michael: Very nice.

00:36:22.138 --> 00:36:22.858
That must have been fun.

00:36:23.173 --> 00:36:24.313
Alan: It was interesting.

00:36:26.218 --> 00:36:27.298
Michael: Probably had some experiences.

00:36:27.688 --> 00:36:30.188
Would you rather spend 24
hours with a toddler-sized

00:36:30.188 --> 00:36:31.888
T-Rex or a T-Rex-sized toddler?

00:36:34.583 --> 00:36:36.433
Alan: Definitely a T-Rex-sized toddler.

00:36:36.748 --> 00:36:37.258
Michael: Why is that?

00:36:37.993 --> 00:36:38.503
Alan: I don't know.

00:36:38.713 --> 00:36:39.793
That would be ridiculous.

00:36:40.078 --> 00:36:40.258
Michael: Yeah.

00:36:43.108 --> 00:36:44.368
Alan: That is a ridiculous question.

00:36:45.583 --> 00:36:45.673
Michael: Yeah.

00:36:45.778 --> 00:36:46.138
Alan: Go ahead.

00:36:46.738 --> 00:36:48.658
Michael: What's your go-to karaoke song?

00:36:52.888 --> 00:36:53.913
Alan: Probably Ice Ice Baby.

00:36:54.688 --> 00:36:55.468
Michael: Nice.

00:36:56.458 --> 00:36:56.938
Classic.

00:36:56.998 --> 00:36:57.568
Vanilla Ice.

00:36:57.568 --> 00:36:57.988
I like it.

00:36:58.888 --> 00:37:00.868
Finally, what's the weirdest thing
you've ever carried around in

00:37:00.868 --> 00:37:02.608
your bag, briefcase, or pockets?

00:37:07.003 --> 00:37:08.083
Alan: Weirdest thing?

00:37:08.423 --> 00:37:08.643
Michael: Yep.

00:37:13.933 --> 00:37:14.893
Alan: I guess creatine.

00:37:15.598 --> 00:37:15.988
Michael: Okay.

00:37:16.753 --> 00:37:18.253
Alan: I don't know if
that'd be weird, but yeah.

00:37:18.398 --> 00:37:18.608
Michael: Yeah.

00:37:18.668 --> 00:37:19.248
To some people, I suppose.

00:37:19.363 --> 00:37:21.733
Alan: At the airport, it's weird 'cause
they have to check it every time.

00:37:22.168 --> 00:37:22.648
Michael: I bet.

00:37:23.338 --> 00:37:23.818
I bet.

00:37:23.998 --> 00:37:27.118
Well, Alan, I appreciate you making
the time to, to chat with me today.

00:37:28.138 --> 00:37:33.118
Your body of work is really impressive,
and your experience, what you've been

00:37:33.118 --> 00:37:38.533
through in life is very unique and the
way you've overcome the challenges and

00:37:38.563 --> 00:37:41.113
inspire others is really impressive.

00:37:41.113 --> 00:37:46.873
So if listeners wanna find you, listen to
your podcasts, or what you're currently

00:37:46.873 --> 00:37:50.653
working on, how can they go deeper if
this conversation resonated with them?

00:37:51.058 --> 00:37:51.358
Alan: Yeah.

00:37:51.358 --> 00:37:52.408
Thank you again for having me.

00:37:52.438 --> 00:37:53.248
Started with gratitude.

00:37:53.248 --> 00:37:53.878
End with gratitude.

00:37:53.878 --> 00:37:54.298
Thank you.

00:37:55.318 --> 00:37:56.668
Do you ask those questions to everybody?

00:37:58.183 --> 00:38:00.373
Michael: The speed round questions?

00:38:00.403 --> 00:38:00.703
Alan: Yeah.

00:38:00.913 --> 00:38:01.898
Michael: Yes, same questions to everybody.

00:38:01.948 --> 00:38:03.288
Alan: How did you come up with those man?

00:38:04.018 --> 00:38:06.088
Michael: I have a sick mind sometimes.

00:38:06.683 --> 00:38:09.763
Alan: T-Rex-sized toddler
or a toddler-sized T-Rex?

00:38:09.898 --> 00:38:10.228
Michael: Yes.

00:38:10.663 --> 00:38:11.023
Alan: What?

00:38:11.833 --> 00:38:12.073
Nice.

00:38:12.478 --> 00:38:13.388
Michael: I like making
hypotheticals sometimes.

00:38:13.548 --> 00:38:14.233
Alan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:14.233 --> 00:38:14.983
No, it's all good.

00:38:14.983 --> 00:38:17.293
That's really, that's really
something I've never heard that

00:38:17.293 --> 00:38:18.253
question before in my life.

00:38:19.003 --> 00:38:21.733
Yeah, so if anyone's out there and
they want, so high humility, high

00:38:21.733 --> 00:38:23.958
work ethic, high self-improvement,
orientation, I'm not for everybody.

00:38:24.373 --> 00:38:26.983
If you want big rewards for
minimal effort, do not reach

00:38:26.983 --> 00:38:28.093
out under any circumstance.

00:38:28.123 --> 00:38:30.883
I realized somewhere along the
line that I was trying to help

00:38:30.883 --> 00:38:33.398
people that I couldn't help because
nothing works unless you work.

00:38:34.153 --> 00:38:34.393
Michael: Yep.

00:38:34.423 --> 00:38:37.363
Alan: Despite what the internet wants to
tell you, nothing works unless you work.

00:38:37.933 --> 00:38:39.163
Certainly not in the real world, right?

00:38:39.643 --> 00:38:39.823
Michael: Right.

00:38:40.093 --> 00:38:42.013
Alan: If you're gonna lie, steal,
cheat, and status your way to

00:38:42.013 --> 00:38:45.103
success, then yeah, you can do that,
but I'm not interested in that.

00:38:45.103 --> 00:38:48.673
So, high work ethic, high humility,
high self-improvement orientation.

00:38:48.673 --> 00:38:50.133
Reach out NextLevelUniverse.com.

00:38:50.263 --> 00:38:53.713
Next Level University podcast, success and
personal development in your pocket from

00:38:53.858 --> 00:38:55.213
anywhere on the planet, every single day.

00:38:55.213 --> 00:38:55.903
Completely free.

00:38:55.903 --> 00:38:57.553
That is Next Level University.

00:38:57.853 --> 00:38:59.833
We do an episode every single
day on the fundamentals of

00:38:59.833 --> 00:39:02.773
success and personal development,
self-improvement and personal growth.

00:39:02.773 --> 00:39:07.513
And we are the mentors in your
pocket that we never had 'cause we

00:39:07.513 --> 00:39:12.253
both grew up without dads and now we
just wanna spread self-improvement

00:39:12.253 --> 00:39:13.783
to as many people as possible.

00:39:13.783 --> 00:39:14.983
So thank you so much for having me.

00:39:14.983 --> 00:39:15.553
I appreciate it.

00:39:15.603 --> 00:39:16.203
Michael: I appreciate that.

00:39:16.203 --> 00:39:19.833
Thank you, Alan, and appreciate
how grounded this conversation was.

00:39:19.833 --> 00:39:22.413
And finally, before you go, if you're
a dad listening to this and you find

00:39:22.413 --> 00:39:25.483
yourself in between, navigating a season
feels different, head to gaptogig.com,

00:39:25.753 --> 00:39:27.483
subscribe to the Gap to Gig newsletter.

00:39:27.663 --> 00:39:28.503
Comes out every Friday.

00:39:28.503 --> 00:39:32.073
It's a quieter space to reflect on work,
life, and what really matters right now.

00:39:32.373 --> 00:39:34.333
And if this conversation resonated,
consider sending it to another

00:39:34.333 --> 00:39:35.283
dad who might need to hear it.

00:39:35.583 --> 00:39:37.083
Until next time, I'm Michael Jacobs.

00:39:37.263 --> 00:39:39.213
Thanks for showing up and
listening to Gap to Gig.