Jacqui Myslinski on Simplifying Life for Busy Working Dads

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Jacqui: The first time I had them
clean their room, they're like,

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"Mommy, my room's clean." And I walk
in, I'm like, "The hell it is." Like,

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"What do you mean your, your room's
clean?" And I realized, like, I didn't

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set the expectations clear enough.

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And the same thing at work.

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Like, somebody could, I don't know, maybe
you've got a, a new junior copywriter

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and they're writing, like, blog posts,
and they'll be like, "Okay, it's done."

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Like, well, no, like,
it, it, it's, it's not

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Welcome to Gap to Gig, the show for
dads navigating the in-between season

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when work, identity, and priorities
start asking different questions.

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Here we talk about what that
season looks like and how to

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move through with intention.

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Michael: I'm your host Michael Jacobs,
and today's guest is Jacqui Myslinski,

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founder of Productivity Nerd Consulting.

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She's a self-described recovering
perfectionist, productivity nerd,

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and the operations whisperer you
didn't know you needed until you're

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drowning in Slack threads at 10:00 PM.

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Jacqui helps entrepreneurs and
teams create systems and processes

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that actually work, not the kind
that handcuff creativity, but the

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kind that free up mental space so
we can focus on what matters most.

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Jacqui, welcome to the show.

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I'm so glad you're here.

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Jacqui: Hey, Michael, thank you.

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Michael: I appreciate you being here.

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So, you've built your career around
helping people bring order to chaos.

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What first kind of pulled you toward
the world of systems and productivity?

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Jacqui: You know, my first job out of
school, I worked for a really, really

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small company based out of Germany, and I
wore a sales hat and a marketing hat, and

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there was so much to do and, like, just
no really standard way of doing things.

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And I just found that every job I
had after that was really, really

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similar, and it, it drove me nuts.

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You know, I was always the person who
had, like, my closet's got labeled

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bins for everything, l-, and just
organization has always been my thing.

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And

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Michael: what

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Jacqui: really got me started in
this is back in 2014, my dad and I

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opened a brewery, and it was really
the first time that I had stepped

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into entrepreneurship, and we didn't
know what the hell we were doing.

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And we were a really, really small
team, and if somebody was out, like if

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the brewer was sick, we were screwed.

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Like, nobody knew what to do.

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So, I

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Michael: started

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Jacqui: following people around with
clipboards, writing down what they

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did, like, like a very rudimentary SOP.

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Like back then, we really didn't have
Notion or project management tools.

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You know, I hadn't really been
exposed to them yet, so I had a

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three-ring binder with this is
h-, what you do to fill a keg.

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You know, this is what you do
to open up the, the tap room in

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the morning, things like that.

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And because the, the chaos was,
we lived the chaos firsthand.

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Michael: And

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Jacqui: just, I'm drawn to fixing stuff.

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Michael: So,

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Jacqui: if, if it didn't hap-, if,
if we didn't have those step-by-step

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instructions, like I said, if people were
sick or somebody else had to come in and

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fill in, like, nobody knew what to do.

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So for me, it was a natural thing to
try to create that order and, and the

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instruction manuals and things like that.

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And then, you know, after, after the
brewery, that could be another story,

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I was an operations manager for a
marketing agency, and the same thing.

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Like, I walked into, it's like the
same shit show in a different wrapper.

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You know, I was in charge of onboarding
new hires, and no, there, nobody was

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ever onboarded the same way, which I'm
sure a lot of people can relate to.

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So, I had to come up with an
onboarding, like, standardized

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thing, and then the next thing, and
then the next thing, and then I was

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working for a consulting company.

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And, again, I just dove into the, like,
nobody does anything the same way.

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So how do we manage people when
everybody works their own way?

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How do I seek help from somebody
if the, my boss does it differently

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than what I was told to do?

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And it just, I was seeing this
over and over and over and over and

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over again, and I'm like, I, I am
naturally inclined to help solve these

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problems, and that sounded way too
cliche, but naturally inclined to,

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like, go in and help organize things.

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And that's just, I ended up getting
laid off from the consulting company and

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started, started the business Productivity
Nerd and might do a rebrand soon, but

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the, the name was fitting, fitting
at the time and really describes just

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Michael: Sure.

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Jacqui: who I am at my core.

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Michael: Sure.

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Yeah, I, I can totally relate.

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Like, you and I are both
systems people, right?

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We both want processes and procedures
to help us get from point A to point

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B so that we can replicate and kind of
bring some order to the chaos of everyday

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life or even more complicated things.

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But that doesn't necessarily
mean that we can't be creative,

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too, in the process, right?

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And you've said that standardization
doesn't kill creativity,

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that it actually protects it.

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Can you kind of unpack that idea for
us of like, for, particularly for

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people who might still resist structure

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Jacqui: Yes.

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Michael: and SOPs and
things of that nature?

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Jacqui: Yeah, 'cause that's resistance
that I get a lot, especially with,

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with bigger companies or with startups.

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You know, startups will say, you know,
"I, we're, we're too, we're too new,"

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and I feel like that's an excuse.

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Yeah, we're, we're, we're too new.

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We move too fast, or y-, with may-,
maybe marketing agencies, you know,

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s-, systems are going to stagnate
our product or our creativity.

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And I get it.

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I, I get where they're coming from, but
the lens that I look through is that if

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there is, if there's a, if, if there's
a question that you have to answer,

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maybe from either from a peer or from a
direct report, you know, more than th-,

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two or three times, you know, that needs
to be standardized because the time and

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the band-, and we, we all know the the
bandwidth context switching takes, right?

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So if we're in the middle of, if,
of a literal creative task and we're

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brainstorming or we're, we're designing
something, and then that focus gets

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broken to go answer a question where,
I mean, you know, too, as a manager,

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like, you know, you sit there and
you're just like, "How many times do I

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have to fucking answer this question?

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Like I've, I've answered this 17
times already this week." And that's

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where, I mean, the systems are pre-,
protecting our, our flexibility and

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creativity because if there is a, a
system expe-, well, in a perfect system,

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you know, expectations are set, they're
documented, and yes, you may have to

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be interrupted, but then you could
tell that person, "Go look it up here.

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The thing you're doing is documented.

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Go find it here." And then you're
not getting derailed from whatever

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you were doing for 30 minutes.

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You can then quickly get back to the
creative, the thing that you were

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doing that you needed that either
defocus or, or creative thinking for.

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So that's really what I mean is
that it, it gives us guardrails.

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It, it sets expectations, which is a
huge, huge thing that I hammer home,

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whether it's with my kids, since we
are talking about parenting, too.

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You know, setting expectations,
communication, and when all of

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those things make up a system.

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'Cause I know people think systems and
they think rigidity and, and militant,

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and it, it sets a framework, guardrails
to give us the freedom to do other things

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because then our brains are working less
on the repetitive things that tend to take

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up too much of our time and bandwidth.

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Michael: Right.

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Yeah.

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I mean, to me it's like the systems
are there to support, right?

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That is so that you can focus on
the things that are most important

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to what you're building or what
you want to be doing, right?

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And so,

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Jacqui: Yeah.

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Michael: again, like you said,
whether that's at work or at home,

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having those systems in place allows
you to be able to focus more on the

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things that are of greater importance
or of greatest importance, right?

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Instead of getting sidetracked by, "Oh, I
need to show somebody how to do this for

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the three millionth time." Or even just
for yourself of like, "Oh, how did I, how

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do I edit this thing?" Or, "How do I,"

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Jacqui: Yeah.

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Michael: "right, fill out, you
know, complete this task?" Like,

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"How did I do it last time?

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How do I do it consistently so that I can
get through it more efficiently and not

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only do it right, but be able to then do
it in a way that motivates you to, to go

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on to the next thing and to accomplish
more than what you normally could have?"

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The, the, the structure isn't
there to necessarily constrain you.

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Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

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Oh, absolutely.

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Michael: In a way it constrains,
you know, because it keeps you on a

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path, but it's not there to constrain
your creativity, it's there to

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support what you're building, right?

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They are support systems, not constraints

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Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

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Oh, absolutely.

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And even right now I'm a solo
operator and like I, I tell

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everybody, like my brain sucks.

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If I don't write something
down, I don't remember it.

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And as a, as a quick example, like
on, on my website, like I use HubSpot

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to manage the website, and any time
I have a free download or a new

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webinar, like I gotta create a landing
page and there's a form, and then

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there's, there's all these things.

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And I, I learned the first time
I did it, like there was an order

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of operations just at least within
HubSpot, that if I did the things in

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the right order, it made it much easier.

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And then the second time I went to do it,
it was like six months later and I forgot.

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And I'm like, "Well, shit, if I wrote
it down the first time it would've

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saved me." And then of like, I mean,
we'll get into this, but like I, I,

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project management, you know, I geek
out on that, too, so then I made myself

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like a task template with all the
things and the links to all the places.

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And that's where sometimes people, too,
they're like, "Ugh, I don't wanna take

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the time to document those things."
But at least for me, and me just being

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one person, it saves an insane amount
of time, brain power, remembering

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frustration when I can just go to
the, the document I wrote for myself

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and go, "Aha." Look, it's that easy.

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There's links to
everything, and there we go.

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Save time.

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Michael: Yeah, absolutely.

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So then you seem to have a pretty good
handle on like when you need to document

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things and when you can't keep winging it.

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Because I think for a lot of dads
like myself, it's easy to get

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trapped in being busy, right?

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And when we get busy, we tend to
quote-unquote "wing it" more, right?

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We don't just like,

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Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

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Michael: We don't have the structures
in place yet, and so we're just like,

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"Alright, we're just gonna keep, alright,
we'll figure this out as we go along."

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Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

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Michael: At some point,
though, that doesn't work.

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How can someone tell when they've
reached that point where winging

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it no longer works and they need to
put some sort of structure in place?

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Jacqui: It's a feeling.

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For me, it, it's a feeling of what, if
it's work, like if at the end of the

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week, like, or at the beginning of the
week, if I set out goals for myself

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and at the end of the week I look back
and I go, "What the hell did I do?"

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Like you said, I was so
busy, but what did I do?

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That to me is like, okay, I am
winging it and I need more structure.

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Or same thing like at home.

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We, we in our house have
established with the boys, my

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boys are how old are they now?

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Seven and eight.

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And like Saturday morning is cleanup day.

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And I try to mimic things that they do
at school too, because my kids know at

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school like, "Oh, when we first get in
we do this, and then, then special is

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from this time to this time, and then
we come back and then we unpack and

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pass," and like they can rattle off
their routine at school like better than

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like I can remember my own calendar.

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So I try to tap into those things
when I'm consulting with clients

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about routines, but also at home.

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So we try to d-, we, we try, say,
even that I, we even don't stick to,

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to it perfectly, but we try to do
like Saturday morning is cleanup day

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and they, they have their checklist.

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You know, try to make it a s-,
a system, an appropriate system

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for a seven and eight-year-old,
but you've gotta clean your room.

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They've got a checklist.

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They've gotta, whoever, one of
them takes, cleans the bathroom.

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They do this.

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And then so talking about like when do we
need to not wing it, if let's say Sunday

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night comes around and like the house
is still a disaster or I didn't make my

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shopping list to, for food shopping for
the week and I go, "Well, shit, like I

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didn't get anything done that I wanted
to," again, I look back and I'm like,

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"Okay, I need more structure," because
I had expectations or I had, in my head

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I had a plan and the plan, when I look
back, it didn't, didn't work out that way.

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That to me is just a good gut feeling,
like a litmus test of, okay, like,

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we need some, we need some type
of structure or a system in place.

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Michael: Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think like it's easier
said than done to get started

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with the system, right?

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Like it's

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Jacqui: Absolutely.

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Michael: not that hard
to build a system, right?

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And you can always refine
your system, right?

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What you start with you think is perfect,
but you know, you, you realize is the

00:12:31.942 --> 00:12:34.902
more you go through it, the more times
you repeat it, you can figure out where

00:12:34.902 --> 00:12:36.302
the efficiencies are, where they aren't.

00:12:37.362 --> 00:12:37.732
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:12:37.742 --> 00:12:44.872
Michael: But I think oftentimes we
get overwhelmed with what we think

00:12:44.872 --> 00:12:47.912
needs to get done, right, when
trying to build these systems, and

00:12:48.542 --> 00:12:48.842
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:12:49.002 --> 00:12:52.702
Michael: it causes us to
be more reactionary, right?

00:12:52.722 --> 00:12:55.822
Whether that's at work or at home.

00:12:56.592 --> 00:13:01.452
And like, for you, it sounds like
weekends come and because you have this

00:13:01.452 --> 00:13:04.612
system in place, it helps you feel a
little bit more in control of like,

00:13:04.622 --> 00:13:09.002
okay, we're at least gonna kind of
reset the house to some degree, right?

00:13:09.442 --> 00:13:09.949
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:13:10.212 --> 00:13:11.182
Michael: By, by doing
some cleanup time, right?

00:13:11.572 --> 00:13:16.342
I mean, yeah, you're not creating
a five-star hotel experience every

00:13:16.402 --> 00:13:20.792
Saturday morning with your kids of like
everything is, you know, perfect corners

00:13:20.822 --> 00:13:22.342
tucked in on the beds and all that.

00:13:22.342 --> 00:13:26.882
But like you are, right, but you're
setting a stage for like how you want

00:13:26.892 --> 00:13:30.602
to, you know, enter the, the next week.

00:13:30.812 --> 00:13:36.722
And I think my guess is that it
helps you not react so much in the

00:13:36.722 --> 00:13:42.002
moment of like, it's one less thing
to, that could potentially feel

00:13:42.002 --> 00:13:47.492
overwhelming because you've controlled
this one aspect of your life.

00:13:48.072 --> 00:13:49.712
And, yes, there's
flexibility in that control.

00:13:49.712 --> 00:13:54.192
So I'm not saying it's like, you know,
this has to be black and white, like this

00:13:54.192 --> 00:13:55.512
is exactly how it's going to go, right?

00:13:55.632 --> 00:14:01.132
There's some flexibility in your
system, right, but there is a way to

00:14:01.602 --> 00:14:06.042
prevent you, to kind of set yourself
up for more success for the following

00:14:06.042 --> 00:14:11.002
days and not react so much in the
moment 'cause I feel like oftentimes

00:14:11.002 --> 00:14:16.592
as parents, it's easy for us to react,
whether it's at work or at home, because

00:14:16.592 --> 00:14:18.072
there's just so much going on, right?

00:14:18.072 --> 00:14:18.882
We're overwhelmed.

00:14:19.264 --> 00:14:19.644
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:14:19.662 --> 00:14:24.102
Michael: And you know, for you, I think
it's, you know, one step that you take

00:14:24.102 --> 00:14:27.632
to feel more in control is to have these,
this Saturday morning routine, right?

00:14:28.422 --> 00:14:32.862
What do you recommend for parents who
feel like they're constantly reacting?

00:14:32.862 --> 00:14:36.382
Like, what is one small first
step that they can take towards

00:14:36.552 --> 00:14:37.732
feeling more in control?

00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:41.550
Jacqui: Yeah, this is, this is a good one.

00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:47.810
Yeah, we can start with the parent
lens, but I, I, anytime I'm trying to

00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:52.750
determine like, okay, am I gonna take
the time to set some guardrails in place

00:14:52.770 --> 00:15:01.866
is, is what I like to think of, like,
what is w-, either what thing is maybe,

00:15:01.886 --> 00:15:05.446
so as parenting, if we're reacting,
like what do I find myself reacting

00:15:05.466 --> 00:15:10.526
to most often or the most extreme to?

00:15:11.806 --> 00:15:14.796
And I don't know why lately,
but the damn kids are like doing

00:15:14.806 --> 00:15:16.161
these bottle flips all the time.

00:15:16.856 --> 00:15:20.026
I know there's nothing I can do about
it, but I find my and I, this is a really

00:15:20.026 --> 00:15:24.136
stupid example, but hopefully some other
dads are sitting there going, "Yeah, my

00:15:24.136 --> 00:15:26.906
kid's bottle flipping, too, and I just
wanna throw the bottles out the damn

00:15:26.906 --> 00:15:32.726
window." But trying to like, I guess,
realize like what am I reacting to?

00:15:32.726 --> 00:15:35.876
And when I think when you reflect on
that, it's like, okay, that's stupid.

00:15:35.876 --> 00:15:37.506
I just need to not let it bother me.

00:15:37.786 --> 00:15:42.606
But reactionary, like to me, like the,
the purpose of the, the Saturday cleanup,

00:15:42.616 --> 00:15:45.256
like now that it's summertime, we have a
pool, we have a lot of kids coming over.

00:15:45.536 --> 00:15:49.426
If a kid like rings the doorbell
and wants to come in, then at least

00:15:49.426 --> 00:15:50.996
the house is like semi-presentable.

00:15:51.356 --> 00:15:55.036
And, believe me, I am not a person
whose house is, is pristine at all.

00:15:55.346 --> 00:15:58.966
But when there's, you have laundry
everywhere and, and kids' toys

00:15:58.966 --> 00:16:01.306
everywhere, I'm like, when people
come over, there needs to be some

00:16:01.306 --> 00:16:03.626
level of, some level of tidiness.

00:16:03.896 --> 00:16:09.886
So, for me, it's I, I don't want to
be when, when a parent calls me, he's

00:16:09.886 --> 00:16:13.186
like, "Hey, can, can the kids get
together?" I don't wanna be reactionary

00:16:13.186 --> 00:16:16.676
and overwhelmed in the moment like, "Oh
shit, I gotta clean up my house now."

00:16:16.946 --> 00:16:19.836
So, that's why we do the, the cleanup.

00:16:20.276 --> 00:16:23.126
Meal, like getting dinners ready
is another thing for me that

00:16:23.556 --> 00:16:25.296
I just, it gives me anxiety.

00:16:25.356 --> 00:16:26.536
I, I, I hate it.

00:16:26.596 --> 00:16:33.036
I don't, so for me, the reactionary of,
okay, it's 4:00 and we have nothing taken

00:16:33.036 --> 00:16:34.696
out, no-, nothing's defrosted for dinner.

00:16:34.696 --> 00:16:35.756
We don't have a plan.

00:16:36.136 --> 00:16:40.386
So for that, like I've started tr-,
trying to meal plan on Sundays.

00:16:40.386 --> 00:16:42.976
I even built like this whole agent
to like interact with my recipes.

00:16:43.076 --> 00:16:44.076
That's a whole nother story.

00:16:45.136 --> 00:16:50.456
But I, I just try to think of, 'cause
your question was how do you, how do you

00:16:50.456 --> 00:16:54.416
take the first step, I think was your
question, of, so I try to think back to

00:16:54.416 --> 00:16:58.366
the things that like really stress me out,
really make me overwhelmed as a parent,

00:16:58.696 --> 00:17:00.286
and then address each of those things.

00:17:00.556 --> 00:17:04.066
You know, whether it's your kids
leaving their clothes everywhere.

00:17:04.246 --> 00:17:08.396
It might be, you know, every night,
maybe 30 minutes before bed, like

00:17:08.706 --> 00:17:13.356
again, like a school schedule, like
take the time out and enforce it.

00:17:13.356 --> 00:17:14.936
And like the kids are gonna push back.

00:17:14.966 --> 00:17:18.716
They're gonna, they're not gonna
wanna do it, but consistency, too.

00:17:19.296 --> 00:17:22.276
And we, we, to be honest, with summer
and things like that, we have not

00:17:22.276 --> 00:17:23.626
been as consistent as we wanted.

00:17:23.626 --> 00:17:28.166
But find the thing that you're most
reactionary to that's either, like I

00:17:28.166 --> 00:17:33.196
said, most explosive, that really just
irritates you the most, and think of like

00:17:33.206 --> 00:17:37.856
one small thing you can do to create a
mini system, because yeah, you're not

00:17:37.856 --> 00:17:41.166
gonna create this 12-step process 'cause
then you're not gonna wanna follow it.

00:17:41.166 --> 00:17:43.516
The kids aren't definitely
not gonna wanna follow it.

00:17:43.986 --> 00:17:48.086
So little baby steps towards
improving that one reactionary thing.

00:17:48.694 --> 00:17:55.454
Michael: I think what I, I like most about
that idea is not only are you addressing,

00:17:55.464 --> 00:17:59.244
like, something that is front of mind for
you, have like identified like what are

00:17:59.244 --> 00:18:03.194
the things that I'm most reactionary to
right now, but it also implies that it

00:18:03.194 --> 00:18:05.884
doesn't have to be a big thing, right?

00:18:06.364 --> 00:18:13.524
It doesn't have to be this monstrous
task or this overwhelming thing that

00:18:14.024 --> 00:18:18.624
kind of takes over your mental load,
your mental capacity, because it can be

00:18:18.624 --> 00:18:23.664
as simple as just like picking up your
dirty clothes off the floor every night.

00:18:23.954 --> 00:18:26.724
Like it can start simple,
it can start small.

00:18:26.764 --> 00:18:30.674
And like you said, as you build up a
routine, as you build consistency, then

00:18:30.674 --> 00:18:32.394
you can start to add on to that, right?

00:18:32.414 --> 00:18:34.914
Then you can maybe address
the next piece of that.

00:18:34.924 --> 00:18:38.924
Well, maybe it's, you know, at some point
your kids are of the age where they can

00:18:38.954 --> 00:18:40.494
start to learn to do their own laundry.

00:18:40.494 --> 00:18:42.984
So now they're not just picking up
their own clothes, but now they can

00:18:42.984 --> 00:18:44.254
start the washing machine, right?

00:18:44.254 --> 00:18:44.804
And they can,

00:18:45.312 --> 00:18:45.692
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:18:45.744 --> 00:18:46.914
Michael: you know, put
their clothes in the dryer.

00:18:46.982 --> 00:18:48.892
Jacqui: Oh wait, we make,
we make them do it now.

00:18:48.894 --> 00:18:54.224
Michael: So it's like the, again, it's
just like anything else you're trying to

00:18:54.234 --> 00:18:56.994
build, you're doing it in steps, right?

00:18:57.484 --> 00:19:01.514
And you don't have to, it can be
overwhelming and it can appear

00:19:01.524 --> 00:19:03.054
overwhelming on the surface, right?

00:19:03.684 --> 00:19:05.364
But you don't have to
make it overwhelming.

00:19:05.434 --> 00:19:08.494
You can start small and
just build from there.

00:19:08.494 --> 00:19:12.454
You can take one step at a time
and make it more actionable, make

00:19:12.454 --> 00:19:16.864
it more like something you feel
you, you can accomplish, right?

00:19:17.984 --> 00:19:18.454
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:19:18.504 --> 00:19:20.214
Michael: But at the same
time, you also have to

00:19:22.354 --> 00:19:25.824
kind of watch it ad-, and
analyze it as it happens to see

00:19:25.914 --> 00:19:27.024
is this working or is it not?

00:19:27.024 --> 00:19:31.604
Because maybe the routine that you
create isn't efficient, it doesn't work.

00:19:31.614 --> 00:19:34.214
Maybe your kids don't react to it,
your, your spouse doesn't react to

00:19:34.214 --> 00:19:35.674
it, or maybe it's at work and your

00:19:35.872 --> 00:19:35.882
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:19:35.954 --> 00:19:39.594
Michael: colleagues just won't get on
board with the, the new project management

00:19:39.594 --> 00:19:40.934
system, and you have to figure out ways

00:19:41.054 --> 00:19:41.434
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:19:42.104 --> 00:19:43.454
Michael: to make it work
for everybody involved.

00:19:43.464 --> 00:19:47.254
So, but you can't even get to that
stage of figuring out like what is

00:19:47.254 --> 00:19:50.064
a more efficient way to do it until
you identify what it is that you

00:19:50.064 --> 00:19:54.994
want to first build a system around.

00:19:55.854 --> 00:20:00.234
Jacqui: My kids have a, a, a job
list every week, and, like, we've had

00:20:00.234 --> 00:20:04.374
friends come over and I don't, something
comes up like, "Oh, how do you, how

00:20:04.374 --> 00:20:07.214
do you get your kids to do," may-,
maybe it's, I don't even remember.

00:20:07.324 --> 00:20:10.514
Just something on the list that the,
the dad was like, "How do you get

00:20:10.514 --> 00:20:16.444
your kids to, to do that?" And, and it
is, it's one little thing at a time.

00:20:16.624 --> 00:20:18.624
And he wasn't the first
parent to say that.

00:20:18.624 --> 00:20:21.484
Like, you know, the kids clean
up the dog poop in the yard.

00:20:21.914 --> 00:20:24.064
Each one of them feeds the
dog in the morning or night.

00:20:25.374 --> 00:20:28.144
Like you said, they're supposed
to put their clothes in the hamper

00:20:28.184 --> 00:20:31.984
right side out because I hate it
when I gotta turn everything inside

00:20:31.984 --> 00:20:33.604
out when it comes out of the dryer.

00:20:34.238 --> 00:20:34.528
Michael: I feel seen.

00:20:34.704 --> 00:20:36.564
Jacqui: You know, do a
quick cleanup before bed.

00:20:36.564 --> 00:20:37.144
Yeah, you feel seen?

00:20:37.298 --> 00:20:37.568
Michael: Yes.

00:20:37.714 --> 00:20:37.814
Jacqui: Oh my God.

00:20:38.004 --> 00:20:41.644
Nothing more than I have to go
through 2,700 pair of itty-bitty

00:20:41.644 --> 00:20:43.574
socks and like, and, ugh, anyway.

00:20:44.544 --> 00:20:47.544
But so many parents have said to us, like,
"How do you get your kids to," like, "My

00:20:47.544 --> 00:20:53.564
kid won't do blank." And I always think
of it too, like our, we trained our dog

00:20:53.754 --> 00:20:56.894
when she was very young, and people will
say, too, "How do you get your dog to

00:20:56.894 --> 00:21:02.614
not do blank?" And to me, and I don't
wanna like piss anybody off, but it's

00:21:02.824 --> 00:21:04.794
like you gotta, you gotta follow through.

00:21:05.684 --> 00:21:09.674
And I, I, you know, never wanna like
rub anybody the wrong way when they're

00:21:09.674 --> 00:21:14.184
at my house, but I'm like, my kids do
it because, like, it's non-negotiable.

00:21:14.924 --> 00:21:19.064
Like, it's, you're g-, you do it, and
it's not easy in the beginning, but

00:21:19.064 --> 00:21:23.304
like you said, if, if you pick one thing
at a time, 'cause if we tell our kids,

00:21:23.384 --> 00:21:26.744
"There's 10 things we have to do in our
daily routine," they're not gonna do it.

00:21:26.754 --> 00:21:29.564
They're gonna fight, and then we're not,
as parents, we're not gonna stick to it.

00:21:29.634 --> 00:21:32.014
We're not gonna stick to following
through and reminding them.

00:21:33.344 --> 00:21:34.884
And every kid's motivated differently.

00:21:34.884 --> 00:21:37.044
Like, we have the job chart,
we have a sticker chart.

00:21:37.304 --> 00:21:41.514
My older son will, he has to pass
the job chart to go feed the dog,

00:21:41.514 --> 00:21:43.944
and on his way back out of the
pantry, he puts a sticker on.

00:21:44.244 --> 00:21:47.094
And my youngest son doesn't put
his stickers on, and we tell them,

00:21:47.094 --> 00:21:49.994
"No sticker, no money." They get a
quarter per sticker, and the, the

00:21:49.994 --> 00:21:51.344
stickers are different point values.

00:21:51.694 --> 00:21:55.394
And he makes less money every week
because he doesn't put the stickers

00:21:55.394 --> 00:21:59.654
on, but if we give him a, like a
checklist to clean his room, like, he's

00:21:59.654 --> 00:22:03.764
so driven to like com, to check the
boxes off, but for whatever reason, he

00:22:03.764 --> 00:22:05.054
doesn't put the sticker on the chart.

00:22:06.674 --> 00:22:10.594
So to parents who say, "Well, like,
I can't get my kids to do that,

00:22:10.604 --> 00:22:14.114
Jacqui," like, "You're living in a
fantasy world." Like, it, it took time.

00:22:14.124 --> 00:22:18.354
They're seven and eight, but we started
the job chart probably when they were

00:22:20.620 --> 00:22:26.200
maybe five, but just things that were
appropriate for the age, because we

00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.340
didn't want them to be teenagers going
like, "Hell no, I'm not doing that."

00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:34.620
Like, we wanted to get them, 'cause I
suck at starting new routines, so I'm

00:22:34.620 --> 00:22:38.720
like, I, I wanna make them better than
I am because I, I'm terrible at it.

00:22:38.730 --> 00:22:42.120
So, little by little, one thing
at a time, and then once that one

00:22:42.120 --> 00:22:45.230
thing, like they're dead on with
like feeding the dog every morning.

00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.270
Like they're, when they get home from
school, too, it's put your lunchbox away,

00:22:49.270 --> 00:22:53.370
put your, your water bottle in the, the
drying rack, like hang up all your stuff.

00:22:53.370 --> 00:22:57.320
Like, I just beat it into them every day,
and they're not allowed to do anything

00:22:57.320 --> 00:22:58.850
else until those things are done.

00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:03.270
But just one thing at a time, and then the
h-, the habits just build on each other.

00:23:03.698 --> 00:23:03.758
Michael: Right.

00:23:03.758 --> 00:23:06.028
I think you bring up a great
point, too, of you need to meet

00:23:06.028 --> 00:23:07.108
them where they're at, right?

00:23:07.138 --> 00:23:11.828
You can't overwhelm them with too many
tasks and like one kid great about putting

00:23:11.828 --> 00:23:14.168
stickers on, one kid not so much, right?

00:23:14.168 --> 00:23:14.968
But you give them a checklist

00:23:14.992 --> 00:23:15.352
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:23:15.388 --> 00:23:15.758
Michael: and it works.

00:23:15.758 --> 00:23:16.078
And it's like

00:23:16.312 --> 00:23:16.612
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:23:16.738 --> 00:23:18.578
Michael: sometimes you have to,
the system has to adapt for the

00:23:18.588 --> 00:23:21.048
people that it's built for, right?

00:23:21.048 --> 00:23:22.148
And so you have to meet

00:23:22.442 --> 00:23:22.822
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:23:23.178 --> 00:23:24.058
Michael: your kids where they are.

00:23:24.058 --> 00:23:28.958
And I imagine the other half of that
is you can tell your kids they have

00:23:28.958 --> 00:23:31.928
to do these things and you can get
on them over and over and over again.

00:23:32.008 --> 00:23:35.458
But if you're not emulating those
behaviors, if you're not doing those

00:23:35.608 --> 00:23:38.838
yourself, if you're not taking care of
your own chores in your case, right,

00:23:39.048 --> 00:23:44.958
I imagine your kids probably aren't as
receptive to completing their own chores.

00:23:44.958 --> 00:23:47.938
Because ev-, you could tell them
all day long, "This is what you have

00:23:47.938 --> 00:23:52.338
to do," but if you don't show, if
you don't demonstrate the action,

00:23:52.338 --> 00:23:53.468
if you only speak the action,

00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:54.080
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:23:54.538 --> 00:23:57.498
Michael: it's really hard to get
buy-in, at least in the long term 'cause

00:23:57.498 --> 00:23:58.598
they're gonna be like, "Oh, wait,"

00:23:59.288 --> 00:23:59.678
Jacqui: 100%.

00:24:00.048 --> 00:24:02.638
Michael: "My parents don't do
anything. Why do I have to do

00:24:02.638 --> 00:24:05.778
everything? Like they, it's okay
for them, it's okay for me," right?

00:24:05.778 --> 00:24:11.428
So it's like we all have a, a part in
this, but our parts are different and

00:24:11.428 --> 00:24:14.628
that's where it comes down to like you
have to meet them where they're at.

00:24:14.818 --> 00:24:19.428
Like, I imagine you can't tell your
kids, "Okay, you're g-, this weekend

00:24:19.428 --> 00:24:20.608
you're gonna renovate the house," right?

00:24:20.678 --> 00:24:22.068
They don't have the skill
set for that, right?

00:24:22.438 --> 00:24:24.008
But you can tell them, "Yeah,
so this weekend we're going

00:24:24.008 --> 00:24:25.318
to clean the bathroom," right?

00:24:26.188 --> 00:24:30.178
And you can give them a checklist
or whatever system works for them

00:24:30.178 --> 00:24:32.018
and they can accomplish that, right?

00:24:32.018 --> 00:24:32.968
We have to meet them where they're at.

00:24:33.206 --> 00:24:33.586
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:24:34.288 --> 00:24:37.112
Michael: Give them, you
know, level appropriate, you

00:24:37.112 --> 00:24:38.942
know, tasks that they can,

00:24:39.464 --> 00:24:39.824
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:24:39.982 --> 00:24:40.772
Michael: that they can accomplish.

00:24:40.832 --> 00:24:41.762
And it's,

00:24:42.064 --> 00:24:42.454
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:24:42.832 --> 00:24:46.892
Michael: you know, you talk a lot about,
like, the results of it are great, right?

00:24:46.922 --> 00:24:51.322
But getting there, I imagine,
was not always easy, right?

00:24:51.322 --> 00:24:54.022
There were, I'm sure there was
pushback at, at some point.

00:24:54.042 --> 00:24:55.182
Would that be a

00:24:55.490 --> 00:24:56.100
Jacqui: Of course.

00:24:56.402 --> 00:24:56.912
Michael: fair, fair assessment?

00:24:57.022 --> 00:24:58.462
Like, that is just part of,

00:24:58.550 --> 00:24:58.720
Jacqui: Oh.

00:25:00.292 --> 00:25:03.822
Michael: Part of parenting and also just
a part of system building is it's not

00:25:03.822 --> 00:25:06.012
just a straight line, right, of like,

00:25:06.152 --> 00:25:06.622
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:25:06.652 --> 00:25:08.072
Michael: this is what we're gonna
do, this is the end," right?

00:25:08.072 --> 00:25:09.062
There's going to be pushback.

00:25:09.062 --> 00:25:12.392
There's gonna be, they're
gonna do it at a speed that's

00:25:12.392 --> 00:25:13.552
different than what you expect.

00:25:13.652 --> 00:25:15.672
They might do it in a way that's
different than you expect.

00:25:15.682 --> 00:25:18.792
You might say, "Pick up your clothes
off the floor." They do that, but

00:25:18.822 --> 00:25:21.232
they leave them all inside out,
and now you have to sit there and,

00:25:21.712 --> 00:25:23.112
you know, put them right side in.

00:25:23.112 --> 00:25:24.482
It's like, oh, man,

00:25:24.488 --> 00:25:24.828
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:25:24.902 --> 00:25:27.912
Michael: that just took me, you
know, 10 times longer, right?

00:25:27.912 --> 00:25:31.412
So maybe I need to adjust the
system and adjust, you know,

00:25:31.432 --> 00:25:31.912
Jacqui: Yes.

00:25:31.922 --> 00:25:33.952
Michael: how I communicate
what the expectation is,

00:25:34.308 --> 00:25:34.638
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:25:34.762 --> 00:25:35.092
Michael: right?

00:25:35.152 --> 00:25:38.342
And, but also get them
involved in it of like, "Okay,

00:25:38.512 --> 00:25:38.912
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:25:39.132 --> 00:25:41.972
Michael: You know, here
is what you're doing.

00:25:41.982 --> 00:25:43.362
Here is how it affects me.

00:25:43.942 --> 00:25:46.402
What do you think is, like,
a better solution to this?

00:25:46.412 --> 00:25:50.192
Can you make sure your clothes
are not inside out before you

00:25:50.192 --> 00:25:51.232
throw them in the basket?" Right?

00:25:51.232 --> 00:25:55.492
And get them more involved in feeling
like they are taking ownership of

00:25:55.932 --> 00:25:59.762
that decision, even if it's something
they don't want to, want to do, right?

00:26:00.322 --> 00:26:04.482
It, it's such a, there are
a lot of potential pitfalls,

00:26:05.292 --> 00:26:06.922
right, but there are…

00:26:07.038 --> 00:26:09.188
Jacqui: And a lot of them you
don't find until they happen,

00:26:09.294 --> 00:26:09.654
Michael: Right.

00:26:09.718 --> 00:26:14.248
Jacqui: but that's, that's just how,
whether it's building a system at work

00:26:14.258 --> 00:26:19.578
or at home, you know, you're not gonna,
like, the checklist example too, and,

00:26:19.588 --> 00:26:23.238
and, and I feel like so much that I
learn as a parent I bring into work.

00:26:23.238 --> 00:26:25.108
Like, the first time I had
them clean their room, they're

00:26:25.108 --> 00:26:26.358
like, "Mommy, my room's clean."

00:26:26.398 --> 00:26:30.298
And I walk in, I'm like, "The hell it
is. Like, what do you mean your, your

00:26:30.298 --> 00:26:34.648
room's clean?" And I realized, like, I
didn't set the expectations clear enough.

00:26:34.708 --> 00:26:36.078
And the same thing at work.

00:26:36.078 --> 00:26:40.428
Like, somebody could, I don't know, maybe
you've got a, a new junior copywriter

00:26:40.428 --> 00:26:42.898
and they're writing, like, blog posts,
and they'll be like, "Okay, it's done."

00:26:43.078 --> 00:26:48.698
Like, well, no, like it, it, it's, it's
not, or what-, whatever the task is.

00:26:48.698 --> 00:26:53.768
And, and I've realized that we need,
as leaders and, and business owners,

00:26:53.768 --> 00:26:58.648
like, we, we need to properly set the
expectations and communicate those.

00:26:58.688 --> 00:27:01.918
And if we don't, we gotta look
at ourselves first and be like,

00:27:01.918 --> 00:27:05.698
"Okay, did this person not
complete the task because…"

00:27:05.738 --> 00:27:08.658
Or, "Did they not complete the
task properly because, are they

00:27:08.658 --> 00:27:10.568
incompetent?" Probably not.

00:27:10.918 --> 00:27:15.348
"Did, did I give them all of the
resources they need to complete the task?

00:27:15.368 --> 00:27:18.638
Did I tell them what the, my
favorite, this is, this is more

00:27:18.638 --> 00:27:20.808
of a project management thing,
but, like, a definition of done.

00:27:20.978 --> 00:27:24.438
Like, did I tell them what success
looks like?" And I know that that could

00:27:24.438 --> 00:27:28.908
be overwhelming to people, too, but
if you, again, you take the time up

00:27:28.918 --> 00:27:34.788
front to be like, okay, whether you're
launching a podcast or you're putting

00:27:34.788 --> 00:27:38.538
up a new website or you're cleaning your
room, like, you set the expectations,

00:27:38.538 --> 00:27:42.088
communicate them clearly, and you're
gonna find where there's pitfalls.

00:27:42.088 --> 00:27:42.928
But then you adjust.

00:27:43.248 --> 00:27:47.888
You, you, you iterate, you make changes,
and it's all, it's all an experiment,

00:27:47.888 --> 00:27:52.018
and you find what works best for
the individual, like you said 'cause

00:27:52.328 --> 00:27:56.538
some people are visual learners, some
people, like, are audio learners.

00:27:56.548 --> 00:27:57.418
Some people like to read.

00:27:57.428 --> 00:28:01.288
Like, everybody does things
differently, but the guardrails and

00:28:01.288 --> 00:28:03.128
the framework are still the same.

00:28:03.290 --> 00:28:03.520
Michael: Right.

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:04.240
Right.

00:28:04.250 --> 00:28:06.680
There's, setting the expectations,

00:28:13.032 --> 00:28:13.042
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:28:13.220 --> 00:28:13.800
Michael: I think, is the, probably
the easiest to overlook, but also most

00:28:13.800 --> 00:28:16.020
important 'cause like in our minds, we
know what the expectation is, right?

00:28:16.050 --> 00:28:19.740
But communicating them outwards, you know,
especially at home, can be like, "Oh, I

00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:24.390
just assumed that you would know that."
Well, why would I assume that, though?

00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:27.430
When you, when I think about it
like, you haven't had the same

00:28:27.430 --> 00:28:29.270
experience that I've had and, right?

00:28:29.270 --> 00:28:29.750
And so it's like

00:28:29.756 --> 00:28:29.996
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:28:30.250 --> 00:28:36.050
Michael: my assumption is it's not fair
to project that onto somebody else.

00:28:36.100 --> 00:28:39.000
You can't expect them then to
meet that expectation if you never

00:28:39.100 --> 00:28:41.480
said it clearly to begin with.

00:28:42.030 --> 00:28:47.590
You know, I, I think one of the other
kind of arguments that I see for

00:28:48.490 --> 00:28:52.530
putting systems in place, particularly
at home, is like some people just

00:28:52.530 --> 00:28:55.130
don't like rigid, rigidity, right?

00:28:55.150 --> 00:28:58.260
Whether it's around schedules
or tasks or whatever it may be.

00:28:59.040 --> 00:29:03.390
But it doesn't mean you, you can
s-, not like rigidity or, but

00:29:03.390 --> 00:29:08.370
still implement successful systems
that you'll actually enjoy, right?

00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:12.060
Like, there are low-structure
systems that can deliver results.

00:29:12.330 --> 00:29:16.030
Can you give an example of like,
if somebody just doesn't like

00:29:16.030 --> 00:29:19.330
the rigidity, they're not gonna
build a 15-point checklist, right?

00:29:19.350 --> 00:29:24.310
They're not gonna build a, a board
on Asana or, you know, build a Notion

00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:26.240
document to track all these things.

00:29:26.390 --> 00:29:30.560
What's a low-structure system that,
you know, somebody can implement,

00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:32.910
whether it's at home or at work,
that they can deliver results?

00:29:34.120 --> 00:29:34.380
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:29:35.140 --> 00:29:37.350
I, I would start with, with one thing.

00:29:38.070 --> 00:29:43.540
You know, the, when, when I'm talking
with clients about like, like documenting

00:29:43.540 --> 00:29:46.930
processes and like, "Well, I don't even
know where to start." 'Cause I feel like

00:29:46.930 --> 00:29:52.350
that could be the thing at home, too, is,
is, is I, things are chaotic at, at home.

00:29:52.350 --> 00:29:53.590
I'm always reactionary.

00:29:54.050 --> 00:29:55.020
I don't know where to start.

00:29:55.090 --> 00:29:58.370
Same thing, clients come to me, "I, I,
everything's on fire, I don't know where

00:29:58.370 --> 00:30:02.290
to start." And I like to just kinda go
through a mental exercise of, you know,

00:30:02.540 --> 00:30:07.250
what is, what is the thing that is either,
or I like to list out things, like what

00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:13.640
are the things that are super manual that
I can either automate or, you put in my

00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:18.870
schedule to get them done that are, are
too manual and I just don't enjoy doing.

00:30:19.560 --> 00:30:23.830
A second one could be like what
is something that is a, a pain,

00:30:23.950 --> 00:30:26.170
and a pain could be very generic.

00:30:26.170 --> 00:30:29.940
It could be a, a client calling you up
and, and complaining that they don't

00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:31.410
have the right login information.

00:30:31.410 --> 00:30:34.670
A pain could be your kid telling you
they can't find their shoes all the time.

00:30:35.030 --> 00:30:37.590
So maybe if your kid can't find
their shoes all the time, we've

00:30:37.590 --> 00:30:38.870
got a shoe bin at the front door.

00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:41.780
Like, get, make super simple.

00:30:41.780 --> 00:30:45.240
Like, so what are, what are the
things that are just coming up that

00:30:45.460 --> 00:30:47.060
you want a simple solution for?

00:30:47.110 --> 00:30:50.260
And a system could just be a
simple solution like a shoe cubby.

00:30:50.610 --> 00:30:55.860
Or if you're finding like, like for me,
and I'll, I'll be honest 'cause I, I

00:30:55.860 --> 00:30:59.420
struggle with this, too, like with the
work that I do, I am in the systems.

00:30:59.540 --> 00:31:02.290
By systems, I mean like
software of all of my clients.

00:31:02.520 --> 00:31:05.140
So they're not working out of
a centralized place for me, I

00:31:05.140 --> 00:31:06.320
am in all of their software.

00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:10.680
And if they tag me in something
with a question, like I, I'll

00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:13.200
miss things sometimes if I'm
not in there all the time.

00:31:13.490 --> 00:31:16.820
So clients were, were complaining
that like I wasn't getting

00:31:16.830 --> 00:31:17.890
back to them quick enough.

00:31:18.190 --> 00:31:22.480
So for them, like, okay, I'm
missing notifications, that's,

00:31:22.520 --> 00:31:23.920
that doesn't reflect well on me.

00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:25.560
How do I, how do I fix this?

00:31:25.560 --> 00:31:32.300
So a sup-, and maybe system is, is too
big of a word for something like this,

00:31:32.300 --> 00:31:36.920
but even just a routine, like I put in
my end of day routine like checklist

00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:40.570
that I, I need to just go through and
check like all the accounts of my clients

00:31:40.570 --> 00:31:43.580
that I'm in and just check if there's a
red dot and see if there's something I

00:31:43.580 --> 00:31:47.230
need to address, because I don't wanna
be the person that they're waiting on

00:31:47.380 --> 00:31:47.400
Michael: Yeah.

00:31:47.540 --> 00:31:48.200
Jacqui: for answers.

00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.510
So, I just like to look at like what's
the thorn in your side that you could

00:31:53.830 --> 00:31:55.730
come up with a simple solution for?

00:31:55.730 --> 00:31:58.320
And again, the system could
be something super easy.

00:31:58.370 --> 00:32:01.800
It could be a, it could be
a combination of multiple

00:32:01.800 --> 00:32:03.370
processes all automated together.

00:32:03.438 --> 00:32:03.698
Michael: Right.

00:32:03.780 --> 00:32:04.780
Jacqui: You don't have to go that far.

00:32:05.180 --> 00:32:07.280
But, but yeah, that's what I would do.

00:32:07.368 --> 00:32:08.498
Michael: Yeah, I think
that's such a great reminder.

00:32:08.498 --> 00:32:10.338
Like, a system can be one step.

00:32:10.918 --> 00:32:12.788
It could just be the shoe
bin by the front door, right?

00:32:12.788 --> 00:32:15.028
It doesn't have to be
an elaborate process.

00:32:15.028 --> 00:32:15.698
And so if,

00:32:16.424 --> 00:32:16.644
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:32:16.698 --> 00:32:19.678
Michael: you know, you're looking
for flexibility and you don't care to

00:32:19.688 --> 00:32:23.918
have this, like, rigid routine that
everybody has to follow every day,

00:32:23.968 --> 00:32:27.818
but you want just, like, something,
a step, a single step can be a system

00:32:28.046 --> 00:32:28.506
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:32:28.698 --> 00:32:34.168
Michael: that can kind of reduce
the burden of your day, even if

00:32:34.168 --> 00:32:35.578
it's just by a little bit, right?

00:32:35.578 --> 00:32:40.018
Like, even if it's by a fraction of a
percent, it's like it still allows you to,

00:32:40.772 --> 00:32:41.212
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:32:42.408 --> 00:32:44.288
Michael: to continue your day without

00:32:45.032 --> 00:32:45.502
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:32:45.558 --> 00:32:48.668
Michael: what you might consider absurd
rigidity, somebody else might consider,

00:32:48.878 --> 00:32:51.658
you know, a 17-step system is efficient.

00:32:51.668 --> 00:32:55.078
Like it, it can be one
step, it could be two steps.

00:32:55.288 --> 00:32:57.108
That's all you need to do,
and that can improve your

00:32:57.108 --> 00:32:58.248
life just a little bit, right?

00:32:58.278 --> 00:32:59.708
And that is okay.

00:32:59.708 --> 00:33:03.288
Well, now that burden has been
reduced a bit, potentially, right?

00:33:03.288 --> 00:33:03.368
If

00:33:03.804 --> 00:33:04.084
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:33:04.218 --> 00:33:05.038
Michael: people buy into it,

00:33:05.064 --> 00:33:06.398
Jacqui: I love that way
of thinking about it.

00:33:06.448 --> 00:33:06.478
Michael: Right?

00:33:06.478 --> 00:33:07.188
It's now you've…

00:33:07.324 --> 00:33:08.434
Jacqui: What's a little
burden we can reduce?

00:33:08.508 --> 00:33:11.518
Michael: Then all of a sudden our
day gets a little bit better, right?

00:33:11.588 --> 00:33:13.688
Then maybe we can focus on
what's the next thing I can

00:33:13.688 --> 00:33:14.498
make a little bit better, right?

00:33:14.498 --> 00:33:15.428
And you can start to

00:33:15.832 --> 00:33:15.992
Jacqui: Yes.

00:33:16.158 --> 00:33:21.928
Michael: build this snowball up of effect
based on these little, you know, single or

00:33:21.928 --> 00:33:22.328
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:33:22.448 --> 00:33:24.008
Michael: short-step systems that are just,

00:33:24.392 --> 00:33:24.692
Jacqui: Yep.

00:33:24.778 --> 00:33:30.668
Michael: right, but for those that like
you and me that like, like systems,

00:33:30.948 --> 00:33:33.298
it's okay to have a more complex system.

00:33:33.728 --> 00:33:37.428
I wouldn't necessarily start out
with a 25-step system, right?

00:33:37.428 --> 00:33:42.428
With four different pieces of software,
but you can build up to that, right?

00:33:42.528 --> 00:33:45.868
It's just like training
for anything else, right?

00:33:45.868 --> 00:33:48.338
You build up step, step by step,

00:33:48.620 --> 00:33:49.000
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:33:49.098 --> 00:33:52.788
Michael: Right, but, you know, and that,
for a lot of dads I talk to, it's like,

00:33:53.608 --> 00:33:56.308
okay, they're, we're juggling work, right?

00:33:56.308 --> 00:33:57.688
We, we have family life.

00:33:57.688 --> 00:34:00.668
We got, our kids have activities, and
we want to go attend those things.

00:34:00.668 --> 00:34:04.158
We want to spend time with them, you
know, one-on-one, and we want to have

00:34:04.158 --> 00:34:06.238
family dinners, and maybe we have

00:34:06.280 --> 00:34:06.690
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:34:06.758 --> 00:34:09.218
Michael: some hobbies and some
side projects that we have going on

00:34:09.248 --> 00:34:10.958
that like we also want to pursue,

00:34:12.424 --> 00:34:13.074
Jacqui: Yes.

00:34:13.548 --> 00:34:16.368
Michael: Right, and so, we want to
have these, sometimes it helps to have

00:34:16.368 --> 00:34:22.068
a system that is simple that we can,
like, a lot of dads I'm talking to

00:34:22.068 --> 00:34:24.488
right now, they're like, "There's just
so much going on. Like, I don't even

00:34:24.488 --> 00:34:25.558
know where to start." It's like, okay,

00:34:26.446 --> 00:34:26.706
Jacqui: So much.

00:34:26.706 --> 00:34:26.726
Yeah.

00:34:26.818 --> 00:34:27.088
Michael: Right?

00:34:27.088 --> 00:34:31.998
There's just, sometimes we just need
a system that can immediately just

00:34:31.998 --> 00:34:35.878
make home life or life in general
just a little bit smoother, right?

00:34:35.878 --> 00:34:40.868
And, you know, one suggestion you had was
like, maybe if kids keep misplacing their

00:34:40.868 --> 00:34:42.748
shoes, put a shoe bin in there, in there.

00:34:42.748 --> 00:34:46.018
But like, are there, is there another
system or other ideas that you have that

00:34:46.798 --> 00:34:53.358
help you to make home life just a little
bit smoother on a day-to-day basis?

00:34:54.870 --> 00:34:57.410
Jacqui: I do have like a,
a further backstory though

00:34:57.410 --> 00:34:58.580
on the shoe bin thing, too.

00:34:58.580 --> 00:35:02.110
When you started by like reducing the
burden, like that was what made me think

00:35:02.110 --> 00:35:06.380
of this, and I, I love how you frame
that, is that like for us, like getting

00:35:06.380 --> 00:35:09.720
ready, getting them out the door for
school or if we have somewhere we need to

00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:13.140
be, it's like, w-, we're always rushing.

00:35:13.140 --> 00:35:14.010
It's like, and why?

00:35:14.490 --> 00:35:16.940
And the other thing is
like ask yourself like why.

00:35:17.410 --> 00:35:18.690
Like, why is this happening?

00:35:18.710 --> 00:35:19.950
Then why am I reacting that way?

00:35:19.950 --> 00:35:22.220
Well, what are, what is
happening because of that?

00:35:22.220 --> 00:35:25.170
So for us it was the kids could
never find their damn shoes.

00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:28.890
Like w-, e-, everything would,
so we're like, okay, that was,

00:35:28.900 --> 00:35:32.480
that was the huge problem that we
were, we were losing our minds on.

00:35:32.820 --> 00:35:35.050
And just, you know, get the shoe bin.

00:35:35.180 --> 00:35:37.850
As soon as you get home, put the shoes
in the shoe bin, and then if I would see

00:35:37.850 --> 00:35:41.410
them laying around, I would just say to
my, my youngest one, Evan, I'd be like, "I

00:35:41.410 --> 00:35:43.410
spy," and I would just stare at his shoes.

00:35:43.620 --> 00:35:45.370
And then he'd go, "Alright." And
then he'd go put them in the bin.

00:35:47.060 --> 00:35:52.680
But other, other systems, I mean, for me,
like I hate laundry and I hate dinners.

00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:54.660
Like I, I, I hate them.

00:35:54.670 --> 00:35:59.050
And I tried really hard and I haven't
been sticking with it, but like doing

00:35:59.070 --> 00:36:03.760
like wash Wednesdays, like doing at
least my laundry, 'cause like you

00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.260
said, like we all have stuff going on.

00:36:05.260 --> 00:36:07.450
My husband and I, we
play soccer on Sundays.

00:36:07.690 --> 00:36:09.710
The boys have soccer,
and that's ended for now.

00:36:10.060 --> 00:36:14.360
But it's like, okay, like we gotta get
all of our, our just regular clothes done.

00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:15.190
We got soccer clothes.

00:36:15.190 --> 00:36:16.070
We got all the kids' stuff.

00:36:16.070 --> 00:36:19.650
So I need to, you know, eat
my own, eat my own recipes.

00:36:19.670 --> 00:36:20.130
Or what's that?

00:36:20.160 --> 00:36:20.486
Eat your own dog food

00:36:20.826 --> 00:36:20.846
Michael: Yeah.

00:36:21.110 --> 00:36:21.850
Jacqui: a little bit better.

00:36:22.050 --> 00:36:23.910
But try to make it fun, too.

00:36:24.190 --> 00:36:26.800
Like Wash Wednesdays,
make an alliteration.

00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:32.060
Or, I don't know, if, if you need to
like slow down a little bit, like we

00:36:32.060 --> 00:36:35.050
would try to do like Friday night,
like family board game night, like

00:36:35.070 --> 00:36:36.520
once a month or something like that.

00:36:37.290 --> 00:36:39.610
The daily, the daily routines help.

00:36:40.650 --> 00:36:43.880
We've, we've broken it into
like daily jobs and then weekend

00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:47.380
jobs that are a little bit more
time-consuming and things like that.

00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:52.900
But really just we've, we've told the
kids since like they could do things

00:36:52.900 --> 00:36:57.550
themselves, like we've enabled them
to be as independent as they can.

00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:03.300
So this might not be answering your
question, but, directly, but like I, I

00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:06.190
tell them now, like, "If you can do it
yourself, I'm not gonna do it for you."

00:37:06.940 --> 00:37:11.470
And I know everybody parents differently,
but I see some parents just, i'm like, "I

00:37:11.470 --> 00:37:14.770
would have so much, like you would have
so much more free time if you weren't

00:37:14.770 --> 00:37:18.960
doing all these things that you're doing
for your kids." And again, I feel like

00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.970
I can't, everybody's gonna parent their
own way, but for us, like we're trying

00:37:22.970 --> 00:37:27.800
to teach them to be as independent as
they can for seven and eight years old.

00:37:29.080 --> 00:37:34.110
And kind of another thing, maybe it's
a little tangent, but, like, for me and

00:37:34.110 --> 00:37:37.490
my husband, like it's really important
that we each get our own time for things.

00:37:37.650 --> 00:37:40.420
Like he went golfing today, and
granted it's a work day, so it

00:37:40.420 --> 00:37:42.530
doesn't affect my schedule at all.

00:37:42.860 --> 00:37:48.122
But like he'll talk about golf like, if
we're at a barbecue and other dads will

00:37:48.122 --> 00:37:53.392
go, "Ugh," like, "The wife never lets me
golf." So like, I wanna call out the women

00:37:53.562 --> 00:37:58.042
who, like, d-, don't let their husbands
do anything because it drives me nuts.

00:37:58.142 --> 00:38:01.942
And like, I don't wanna think my husband
and I are like these unique unicorns,

00:38:01.962 --> 00:38:04.962
but like, like I like to sew and craft.

00:38:04.962 --> 00:38:06.142
Like, that's my thing.

00:38:06.142 --> 00:38:10.432
Like, I'll like come in my offi-, my,
my craft room and just lock myself

00:38:10.432 --> 00:38:12.022
in and like I'll sew for a night.

00:38:12.052 --> 00:38:15.442
My husband will say like, "I, I'll get
dinner. I got the kids," or he'll go out

00:38:15.442 --> 00:38:20.102
to happy hour with his guy friends or
like he plays music with a band at work.

00:38:20.212 --> 00:38:22.442
Like, and they're playing,
they're playing a couple shows.

00:38:22.842 --> 00:38:27.002
So for us, like again, it's not a
system, but it's just how our, how

00:38:27.002 --> 00:38:32.342
we like function within our family
is like we know that if we don't get

00:38:32.342 --> 00:38:35.672
that time to ourselves, like we're
gonna be more reactionary and more

00:38:35.672 --> 00:38:39.592
stressed, and then things are just
gonna blow up at home with the kids.

00:38:39.592 --> 00:38:44.152
So we try to make sure that we
each have time to ourselves, by

00:38:44.152 --> 00:38:47.472
ourselves, like whether by ourselves
or with friends or things like that.

00:38:47.512 --> 00:38:55.492
And I just, I, I f-, I wish more couples
did that, but I feel like dads especially,

00:38:55.492 --> 00:38:59.342
like I just hear so many men that just
like, "Ah," like, "I wish I could do

00:38:59.342 --> 00:39:02.382
that." I'm like, "But why don't you?"
Like, "Why don't you, why don't you

00:39:02.382 --> 00:39:09.642
do that?" And again, to each his own,
whatever, but I, I would carve time out

00:39:09.642 --> 00:39:14.692
for yourself if you can, then everybody's
less explosive, less reactionary,

00:39:14.822 --> 00:39:16.262
happier, you know, at home, too.

00:39:16.454 --> 00:39:16.904
Michael: Absolutely.

00:39:17.514 --> 00:39:23.684
It's so important that we want
to be there for our families.

00:39:23.684 --> 00:39:24.474
We want to be there for our kids.

00:39:24.474 --> 00:39:25.624
We want to be there for our spouses.

00:39:25.744 --> 00:39:27.064
We want to show up at work, right?

00:39:27.064 --> 00:39:28.544
We want to do things that are meaningful.

00:39:29.424 --> 00:39:32.114
But we, we also have to
take care of ourselves.

00:39:32.114 --> 00:39:33.584
We have to recharge ourselves.

00:39:33.854 --> 00:39:38.614
Otherwise, it's impossible in the long
run to be able to show up for everybody

00:39:39.124 --> 00:39:41.104
in the places you want to show up, right?

00:39:41.104 --> 00:39:45.144
And so if you don't take care of
yourself, it's, you make it that

00:39:45.144 --> 00:39:47.704
much more difficult to, to show up.

00:39:47.774 --> 00:39:48.194
And

00:39:48.910 --> 00:39:49.320
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:39:49.334 --> 00:39:54.414
Michael: It can go both ways of whether
it's, it could be either spouse that

00:39:54.444 --> 00:39:58.884
maybe takes more advantage of that or,
you know, makes it more difficult, right?

00:39:58.904 --> 00:39:59.914
Or there are also…

00:40:00.032 --> 00:40:00.642
Jacqui: Seen that too, yeah.

00:40:00.754 --> 00:40:03.474
Michael: You could also
be parenting on your own.

00:40:03.664 --> 00:40:05.074
You could be a single parent, right?

00:40:05.074 --> 00:40:05.664
And then you,

00:40:05.876 --> 00:40:06.186
Jacqui: Yeah

00:40:06.244 --> 00:40:09.104
Michael: you have to figure
out ways still to carve out

00:40:09.104 --> 00:40:10.914
time to take care of yourself.

00:40:10.944 --> 00:40:15.084
And it becomes, it, it's very difficult
in the begi-, the younger they are,

00:40:15.084 --> 00:40:16.404
the more difficult it is, right?

00:40:16.404 --> 00:40:16.594
You,

00:40:17.300 --> 00:40:17.480
Jacqui: Yeah,

00:40:17.484 --> 00:40:17.910
Michael: they require more,

00:40:17.950 --> 00:40:18.400
Jacqui: I can imagine,

00:40:18.584 --> 00:40:25.124
Michael: more hands-on time, but you, if
you can recognize like, okay, this is a

00:40:25.594 --> 00:40:28.074
period of time, it is temporary, right?

00:40:28.104 --> 00:40:30.214
My kids will not always be six months old.

00:40:30.214 --> 00:40:31.964
My kids will not always be four years old.

00:40:31.964 --> 00:40:33.574
They will not always
be 10 years old, right?

00:40:33.574 --> 00:40:36.044
They will continue to grow up, right?

00:40:36.064 --> 00:40:40.944
And your responsibilities and the
requirements of you change, right?

00:40:40.944 --> 00:40:42.834
And they're not always
changing for the easier.

00:40:42.834 --> 00:40:45.739
Sometimes they get, there's more
challenging things that occur

00:40:45.739 --> 00:40:46.864
as your kids get older, right?

00:40:46.864 --> 00:40:47.114
But,

00:40:48.120 --> 00:40:48.420
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:40:48.574 --> 00:40:52.644
Michael: it's hard to show up
over the years consistently if

00:40:52.714 --> 00:40:54.914
you are overwhelmed constantly.

00:40:55.944 --> 00:40:58.574
So I really appreciate you
bringing that up of like, you

00:40:58.674 --> 00:41:01.504
both have to, to do that, right?

00:41:01.504 --> 00:41:04.294
It's not just for one
parent or the other, right?

00:41:04.294 --> 00:41:07.454
You both have to carve out time for
the things that re-energize you.

00:41:07.724 --> 00:41:11.084
And there are things that, you know,
as parents that, that can re-energize

00:41:11.084 --> 00:41:12.644
us with our families, right?

00:41:12.644 --> 00:41:13.884
It's not just a matter of

00:41:14.310 --> 00:41:14.380
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:41:14.444 --> 00:41:17.204
Michael: like, I don't want to be
like, "Oh, yes, we have to go out

00:41:17.204 --> 00:41:20.454
every Friday with, with our friends,
with our buddies, because, you

00:41:20.454 --> 00:41:21.224
know, that's what recharges us."

00:41:21.234 --> 00:41:25.054
Like, there are things we do that can
recharge us with our families, that

00:41:25.064 --> 00:41:26.304
do recharge us with our families.

00:41:26.304 --> 00:41:30.614
I think to deny that would be very
inauthentic, to be like, "Yeah, you

00:41:30.614 --> 00:41:33.984
know, it, it's only draining when
I'm parenting." It shouldn't be.

00:41:34.004 --> 00:41:37.224
Like, there's something not,
not correct there, right?

00:41:37.644 --> 00:41:38.094
But…

00:41:38.204 --> 00:41:39.214
Jacqui: oh, a hundred percent.

00:41:39.314 --> 00:41:43.464
I, we, we'll have like Mario Kart
night with the boys and just like be

00:41:43.474 --> 00:41:47.524
silly and like, I don't know, it sounds
ridiculous, but like let them stay,

00:41:47.554 --> 00:41:50.284
let them have ice cream later than
they would've normally or, you know?

00:41:50.284 --> 00:41:53.494
Like just the, the little,
the little things like that.

00:41:53.494 --> 00:41:55.740
Like we watched the movie
"Yes Day" a few months ago.

00:41:55.770 --> 00:41:55.950
Michael: Sure,

00:41:55.994 --> 00:41:56.194
Jacqui: I don't know

00:41:56.260 --> 00:41:56.490
Michael: yep.

00:41:56.554 --> 00:41:56.844
Jacqui: if you've seen that.

00:41:57.324 --> 00:42:01.514
And the premise of that, if you haven't
seen it, is like the kids just get a day

00:42:01.544 --> 00:42:04.604
to, I think there's three kids, to like
do whatever they want, and the parents

00:42:04.604 --> 00:42:07.244
set a budget and stuff, and they're like
whatever they want, we could say yes to.

00:42:07.624 --> 00:42:09.884
And we haven't d-, we told them
that they have to earn that

00:42:09.884 --> 00:42:12.864
somehow with stickers or whatever.

00:42:13.124 --> 00:42:17.334
But like we'll just do, 'cause they're,
the kids are being told no all day long.

00:42:17.564 --> 00:42:21.154
Like they're having to perform and be on
their best behavior at school, and then

00:42:21.154 --> 00:42:22.924
they get home and they have to unwind.

00:42:22.934 --> 00:42:27.674
And I know as parents I get really
frustrated with that, but I feel like

00:42:27.674 --> 00:42:31.234
sh-, it's, it's like, like us, like
if we've had a really stressful day at

00:42:31.234 --> 00:42:35.144
work, we come home and like we bitch and
whine and complain to whoever we go home

00:42:35.144 --> 00:42:36.464
to, if there's somebody to go home to.

00:42:36.814 --> 00:42:39.784
And if you're a single parent, I
hope you have somebody to vent to.

00:42:40.134 --> 00:42:44.204
But, for the kids, that just really just
went off on a tangent, but like we all

00:42:44.204 --> 00:42:47.544
need that space to let all of that out.

00:42:47.814 --> 00:42:51.654
And like if it's Mario Kart night or,
you know, we, well, we were playing

00:42:51.654 --> 00:42:56.024
volleyball in the pool last weekend,
just silly things that y-, you, that

00:42:56.024 --> 00:42:59.824
you know that your family has fun doing
together is, is always a good thing.

00:43:00.162 --> 00:43:00.312
Michael: Absolutely.

00:43:00.312 --> 00:43:00.612
Absolutely.

00:43:00.612 --> 00:43:01.832
And shared interests too, right?

00:43:01.832 --> 00:43:05.462
Of like, you know, maybe you're like, I
think you said your, you and your husband

00:43:05.462 --> 00:43:07.062
play soccer, your kids play soccer, right?

00:43:07.072 --> 00:43:10.832
Like, you can start to introduce some
of the things that you're interested in.

00:43:11.220 --> 00:43:11.640
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:43:11.712 --> 00:43:13.332
Michael: Maybe they'll take on
to it, maybe they won't, but like

00:43:13.332 --> 00:43:16.342
that's another opportunity to
maybe recharge together, right?

00:43:16.342 --> 00:43:20.322
Because you might not have as much time
to recharge on your own, but it's still

00:43:20.322 --> 00:43:24.152
important to find time for yourself
and to, to take care of yourself.

00:43:24.448 --> 00:43:24.858
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:43:24.952 --> 00:43:27.588
Michael: Now, before we get into the speed
round, I want to ask you one, one more

00:43:27.678 --> 00:43:35.968
quick question that like, if a dad only
has 30 minutes this weekend to improve

00:43:36.128 --> 00:43:40.398
something at home, what should he tackle
first and how should he go about it?

00:43:42.062 --> 00:43:45.442
Jacqui: I would get a piece of paper,
like just piece of paper and a marker or

00:43:45.442 --> 00:43:51.832
a pen, and yeah, write down the things
that are consistently a pain in the ass.

00:43:52.382 --> 00:43:55.912
You know, I know for me, like it was the
shoe thing, because then I find brain

00:43:55.912 --> 00:44:03.192
dumping things helps me to go, "Aha," like
that's the thing that I need to create a

00:44:03.192 --> 00:44:05.282
routine for, create something standard.

00:44:05.282 --> 00:44:10.912
So, I, I never like to recommend a
solution without really digging into

00:44:10.912 --> 00:44:12.162
what's going on behind the scenes.

00:44:12.162 --> 00:44:16.302
So even with my clients, like too many
times, like companies, like they wanna

00:44:16.302 --> 00:44:21.192
put Band-Aids on, they wanna put a
Band-Aid on, like your arm gets cut

00:44:21.192 --> 00:44:22.772
off, like that's not gonna fix it.

00:44:22.792 --> 00:44:29.672
So tr-, so really, really honestly looking
at your situation at home and seeing

00:44:29.672 --> 00:44:32.062
like what, what is the biggest pain?

00:44:32.082 --> 00:44:35.832
What am I spending you know, I-,
am I walking around the house for

00:44:36.392 --> 00:44:36.552
Michael: an

00:44:36.562 --> 00:44:39.072
Jacqui: hour every night
picking up toys after the kids?

00:44:39.082 --> 00:44:43.702
Or doing, am I spending way too much
time doing the dishes or laundry for me?

00:44:43.962 --> 00:44:44.392
And

00:44:45.052 --> 00:44:45.542
Michael: which

00:44:45.542 --> 00:44:48.632
Jacqui: one of those things, like if you
could snap your fingers and make it go

00:44:48.632 --> 00:44:52.902
away or make it so much easier, reduce
the burden, like you said, like pick one.

00:44:52.932 --> 00:44:56.372
Pick one of those things after
you brain dump, and then come up

00:44:56.372 --> 00:45:01.052
with like one or two things that
you can do to ease that burden.

00:45:01.052 --> 00:45:04.912
So whatever it is for you, whether
it's, I don't know, maybe taking

00:45:04.912 --> 00:45:07.532
the dog out for a walk after dinner
to clear your head, 'cause then

00:45:07.532 --> 00:45:09.332
that will give you the head space.

00:45:09.362 --> 00:45:13.402
Or if it's, if you're constantly
irritated with your kids leaving

00:45:13.402 --> 00:45:14.672
socks everywhere, like mine,

00:45:15.004 --> 00:45:15.124
Michael: Yeah.

00:45:15.662 --> 00:45:20.512
Jacqui: like what's one little thing that
you could do to help ease that burden?

00:45:20.512 --> 00:45:23.752
'Cause then you're not gonna be
irritated by the socks everywhere, and

00:45:23.752 --> 00:45:26.632
then that'll free up, you know, things.

00:45:26.632 --> 00:45:27.732
So that's what I would do.

00:45:27.782 --> 00:45:33.052
Get a piece of paper, brain dump, write
down just what's a pain, and come up

00:45:33.052 --> 00:45:38.262
with one or two things you could do to
help relieve that burden a little bit.

00:45:38.516 --> 00:45:38.756
Michael: Absolutely.

00:45:38.806 --> 00:45:39.816
That's su-, such a great idea.

00:45:39.816 --> 00:45:42.626
I think also it has the
potential to be cathartic, right?

00:45:43.096 --> 00:45:46.416
Maybe unintentionally, but like,
because you are dumping these things

00:45:46.416 --> 00:45:51.206
out, you start to realize like,
okay, these are the things that maybe

00:45:51.206 --> 00:45:56.336
I, I don't think about because I'm
just, I'm always rushing through it

00:45:56.336 --> 00:45:57.936
and I'm, right, I'm so close to it.

00:45:57.936 --> 00:46:01.686
And now you're like, okay, now I've
identified this, like now I can start to,

00:46:02.396 --> 00:46:05.336
I'm sort of taking some of that burden off
my shoulders, putting it in front of me so

00:46:05.336 --> 00:46:08.316
that I can identify like, okay, what's one
thing I can just make a little bit easier,

00:46:08.626 --> 00:46:09.906
make just a little bit better, right?

00:46:09.906 --> 00:46:15.936
And then it starts to, I imagine you
start to relax a bit of just like,

00:46:15.996 --> 00:46:18.156
okay, yeah, that is something I can do.

00:46:18.526 --> 00:46:19.936
That is something I can accomplish, right?

00:46:20.356 --> 00:46:23.986
It doesn't have, again, it may feel
overwhelming trying to come up with

00:46:23.996 --> 00:46:25.516
all these different things, right?

00:46:26.482 --> 00:46:27.046
Jacqui: Yeah, but one at a time.

00:46:27.096 --> 00:46:28.166
Michael: To go write it
down, but one at a time.

00:46:28.166 --> 00:46:30.466
It's just like, it's not so, not so bad.

00:46:30.466 --> 00:46:31.916
And you, you don't have
to be perfect with it.

00:46:31.916 --> 00:46:34.566
You're not gonna remember everything that
irritated you throughout the week, right?

00:46:35.056 --> 00:46:37.996
U-, unless you're keeping a running tally,
you have a notebook in your pocket and

00:46:38.006 --> 00:46:41.856
you're writing it down and, and maybe
that's what you do, but most likely you're

00:46:41.856 --> 00:46:43.346
gonna miss some stuff, and that's okay.

00:46:43.406 --> 00:46:48.356
But you found something that, that maybe
you can make just a little bit better.

00:46:48.406 --> 00:46:51.946
And you only have 30
minutes, like, great, just

00:46:52.062 --> 00:46:52.412
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:46:52.466 --> 00:46:55.216
Michael: Sit down and just put some
of those thoughts, you know, from pen

00:46:55.216 --> 00:46:58.766
to paper, and now you can look at it
from a different perspective, right?

00:46:58.766 --> 00:47:01.796
Instead of being in your head,
they're out in front of you literally,

00:47:01.980 --> 00:47:02.250
Jacqui: Yes.

00:47:02.306 --> 00:47:05.126
Michael: and then you can be like,
"Okay, now I can see this a little

00:47:05.126 --> 00:47:07.906
bit differently. I've got a little
bit different perspective." You know,

00:47:08.208 --> 00:47:08.628
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:47:08.656 --> 00:47:12.486
Michael: I can start to, you know,
calm myself to be in the moment

00:47:12.486 --> 00:47:15.696
of like, okay, yeah, I'm not
gonna get to the shoes this week.

00:47:15.706 --> 00:47:21.046
That's, you know, a longer term thing, but
maybe I can get to the exercise part of

00:47:21.046 --> 00:47:22.816
like, I want to build in more exercise.

00:47:22.826 --> 00:47:24.906
Like, I just need to let some
of that go, like, oh, like now

00:47:24.906 --> 00:47:25.876
I'm gonna figure this out like,

00:47:26.120 --> 00:47:26.250
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:47:26.266 --> 00:47:29.566
Michael: You know, I'm gonna get up 10
minutes earlier, or I'm gonna take this

00:47:29.566 --> 00:47:33.026
time that I would be doing something
else and I'm going to, to try and

00:47:33.026 --> 00:47:34.506
exercise two days this next week, right?

00:47:35.696 --> 00:47:38.896
It becomes more attainable, right?

00:47:39.056 --> 00:47:42.926
And it, it doesn't have to, again, it
doesn't have to be this huge process.

00:47:42.926 --> 00:47:45.106
We're talking, you know,
30 minutes or less, right?

00:47:45.106 --> 00:47:47.166
Like the old Domino's
Pizza commercials, right?

00:47:47.176 --> 00:47:50.146
W-, it's, it doesn't
have to be a big thing.

00:47:50.416 --> 00:47:54.026
You can, right, but then you
can start to build on that.

00:47:54.046 --> 00:47:57.236
Like, okay, now that I've dumped
out all these ideas, maybe this next

00:47:57.236 --> 00:48:00.736
week I'm focusing on exercise, but
two or three weeks from now I can

00:48:00.736 --> 00:48:03.146
go back to that shoe thing because
I've a little bit more clear-headed,

00:48:03.318 --> 00:48:03.458
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:48:03.626 --> 00:48:03.966
Michael: right?

00:48:04.046 --> 00:48:06.506
And now I can start to
think what ideas do I have?

00:48:06.506 --> 00:48:09.056
How can I maybe make
this a little bit better?

00:48:09.056 --> 00:48:12.496
Or how can I bring this up in conversation
with those it, it affects to come

00:48:12.496 --> 00:48:13.856
up with an idea together, right?

00:48:14.616 --> 00:48:23.306
So I want to go from the smart
and sane to the totally not

00:48:23.336 --> 00:48:25.196
any of that in our speed round.

00:48:25.196 --> 00:48:26.046
Five quick questions that have

00:48:26.196 --> 00:48:26.666
Jacqui: Let's go.

00:48:26.726 --> 00:48:29.826
Michael: nothing to do with anything,
starting with what's the first kids

00:48:29.846 --> 00:48:31.396
show theme song that comes to mind?

00:48:33.446 --> 00:48:35.676
Jacqui: Oh my God, Rugrats.

00:48:35.878 --> 00:48:35.888
Michael: Rugrats?

00:48:35.928 --> 00:48:36.268
Okay.

00:48:36.696 --> 00:48:36.796
Jacqui: The, that

00:48:37.458 --> 00:48:37.748
Michael: Yeah.

00:48:38.116 --> 00:48:39.536
Jacqui: Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

00:48:39.866 --> 00:48:40.216
Yeah.

00:48:40.246 --> 00:48:40.636
Wow.

00:48:41.314 --> 00:48:44.344
Michael: It's been, it's been a minute
since I've heard "Rugrats." Yeah.

00:48:44.604 --> 00:48:45.344
Good choice, good choice.

00:48:45.354 --> 00:48:46.534
So what was your very first…

00:48:46.686 --> 00:48:48.586
Jacqui: I, I like that that's
from my childhood, not the

00:48:48.824 --> 00:48:49.334
Michael: Right, of course.

00:48:49.376 --> 00:48:49.436
Jacqui: kids.

00:48:49.436 --> 00:48:51.896
For the kids, it's like that Spidey
and Friends, the Fall Out Boy.

00:48:52.154 --> 00:48:52.454
Michael: Yeah.

00:48:53.024 --> 00:48:53.314
Okay.

00:48:53.694 --> 00:48:54.934
What was your very first job?

00:48:56.488 --> 00:49:01.368
Jacqui: My very first job, I was a, a, I
don't know if you'd call it a counselor,

00:49:01.558 --> 00:49:05.878
at the, the township that I grew up in
ran a, a summer camp, daycare thing.

00:49:05.878 --> 00:49:09.208
So I was like the teenage
helper, like, for like a second

00:49:09.228 --> 00:49:10.348
grade classroom for the summer.

00:49:10.472 --> 00:49:10.772
Michael: Cool.

00:49:11.052 --> 00:49:11.502
Very cool.

00:49:11.982 --> 00:49:14.772
Would you rather spend 24
hours as a toddler-sized T-Rex

00:49:14.772 --> 00:49:15.982
or a T-Rex-sized toddler?

00:49:15.996 --> 00:49:16.695
Jacqui: Oh my God.

00:49:16.955 --> 00:49:21.545
A to-, a to-, a, a toddler-sized T-Rex.

00:49:21.595 --> 00:49:22.185
Michael: Why is that?

00:49:24.065 --> 00:49:24.945
Jacqui: It's like the Would You Rather.

00:49:24.945 --> 00:49:26.165
We play that game with the boys.

00:49:27.115 --> 00:49:27.995
Be-, I don't know.

00:49:28.055 --> 00:49:29.385
I feel like it would be fun.

00:49:29.395 --> 00:49:32.735
It would just look ridiculous and run
around, and I could probably put it in

00:49:32.735 --> 00:49:38.105
like one of those little baby playpen
things and feed it cool things and yeah,

00:49:38.105 --> 00:49:41.225
no, toddlers, real toddlers, no, I don't
ever want to go back to that again.

00:49:41.475 --> 00:49:44.295
So no, I wanna, I wanna play
with a little baby dinosaur.

00:49:44.445 --> 00:49:44.795
That sounds fun.

00:49:44.835 --> 00:49:46.477
Michael: That is a very honest answer.

00:49:46.477 --> 00:49:47.187
I appreciate that.

00:49:48.217 --> 00:49:51.117
What's your go-to karaoke song or
the one you would sing if you had to?

00:49:52.569 --> 00:49:53.219
Jacqui: Oh my God.

00:49:53.489 --> 00:49:56.539
I have a terrible singing
voice whenever I play piano.

00:49:56.539 --> 00:49:58.499
Whenever I sing, everybody
tells me to shut up.

00:49:58.819 --> 00:50:06.079
But, oh my God, I, I love Janis Joplin,
and I wish I could sing like her.

00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:08.249
I feel like I go, oh, God.

00:50:08.869 --> 00:50:09.719
I don't even know.

00:50:10.629 --> 00:50:11.539
I hate karaoke.

00:50:12.959 --> 00:50:15.219
I feel like I, oh, you know what it is?

00:50:15.269 --> 00:50:16.553
It's "Piano Man" from Billy Joel.

00:50:16.603 --> 00:50:16.923
Michael: Okay.

00:50:18.049 --> 00:50:18.463
Jacqui: That's what it is.

00:50:18.463 --> 00:50:18.843
Michael: Great choice.

00:50:19.219 --> 00:50:21.087
Jacqui: I can play it,
but don't make me sing it.

00:50:21.137 --> 00:50:21.467
Michael: Got it.

00:50:21.929 --> 00:50:24.419
Jacqui: Except if I've had
too many margaritas, then I'll

00:50:24.419 --> 00:50:25.779
sing it, and you'll regret it.

00:50:27.147 --> 00:50:27.577
Michael: That's fair.

00:50:27.577 --> 00:50:27.977
That's fair.

00:50:28.217 --> 00:50:30.307
What's the weirdest thing you've
ever carried around in your

00:50:30.307 --> 00:50:31.817
bag, briefcase, or pockets?

00:50:34.099 --> 00:50:36.919
Jacqui: The weirdest thing I've
ever carried around in my, hmm.

00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:41.169
How, how, how c-, how can we go with this?

00:50:42.189 --> 00:50:43.439
I tell you a real funny story.

00:50:43.969 --> 00:50:45.219
I used to be on this medicine.

00:50:45.859 --> 00:50:46.569
I have narcolepsy.

00:50:46.569 --> 00:50:49.689
I used to be on this medicine that's the
pharmaceutical equivalent of roofies.

00:50:49.689 --> 00:50:50.009
Michael: Oh, wow.

00:50:50.349 --> 00:50:52.839
Jacqui: So not a lot of people don't
know that, and I had to travel with

00:50:52.839 --> 00:50:56.399
it, and I got pulled over from TSA,
and they're like, "What is this?"

00:50:56.459 --> 00:51:00.129
And I'm like, "It's medicine. Like,
it's in a bottle." And so I was

00:51:00.129 --> 00:51:03.329
traveling with pharmaceutical-grade
roofies through an airport.

00:51:03.509 --> 00:51:08.029
And yeah, I got stopped for a long
time when they had to test it and

00:51:08.029 --> 00:51:10.829
clear it and, like, call my doctor
to make sure it was legitimate.

00:51:11.389 --> 00:51:11.669
Michael: So,

00:51:11.669 --> 00:51:14.529
Jacqui: yeah, that's, that's probably the
weirdest thing I've carried on my person.

00:51:15.653 --> 00:51:16.153
Michael: Fair enough.

00:51:16.183 --> 00:51:16.523
Fair enough.

00:51:16.823 --> 00:51:19.503
Jacqui, this has been such a
practical, insightful conversation.

00:51:19.583 --> 00:51:22.893
For anyone who wants to simplify
their work and life or maybe bring

00:51:22.893 --> 00:51:25.563
you in to help build better systems,
where can they find you or learn

00:51:25.563 --> 00:51:26.843
more about what you're working on?

00:51:28.087 --> 00:51:31.167
Jacqui: Yeah, so my website is
productivitynerd.consulting,

00:51:31.177 --> 00:51:34.277
and I'm actually running a
masterclass every two months.

00:51:35.367 --> 00:51:37.197
So there is a button on the website.

00:51:37.197 --> 00:51:40.707
So the masterclass is, I still have
to name it officially, but the name

00:51:40.707 --> 00:51:42.547
is like Why Scaling Feels So Hard.

00:51:42.947 --> 00:51:45.237
And it's an interactive masterclass.

00:51:45.247 --> 00:51:48.667
It's not a sit with your camera off
and multitask and do other things.

00:51:48.667 --> 00:51:53.607
We really dig into like the why,
those root causes of why things,

00:51:53.897 --> 00:51:55.587
why scaling feels so difficult.

00:51:55.647 --> 00:51:59.677
And it's, it's the f-, the last
one I ran was really, really cool.

00:51:59.727 --> 00:52:04.117
We had seven, seven business owners all
in a room, all spewing out the things

00:52:04.117 --> 00:52:08.137
that like they complain about at the
end of the day on all the things that

00:52:08.147 --> 00:52:11.507
why their client delivery feels so
difficult and why scaling is so hard.

00:52:11.507 --> 00:52:14.717
So, I would love for you to attend
the masterclass if you'd like to,

00:52:14.717 --> 00:52:16.327
so you can find that on the website.

00:52:16.463 --> 00:52:16.663
Michael: Awesome.

00:52:16.663 --> 00:52:17.213
I appreciate it.

00:52:17.663 --> 00:52:20.173
Jacqui, thank you again so
much for, for joining me today.

00:52:20.183 --> 00:52:20.643
Your,

00:52:20.967 --> 00:52:21.937
Jacqui: Thanks for having me, Michael.

00:52:22.383 --> 00:52:25.393
Michael: your systems and your
stories behind the systems are,

00:52:25.653 --> 00:52:31.333
they're really inspiring in a way
because they are, they're practical

00:52:31.653 --> 00:52:34.003
and they're, they're sensical, right?

00:52:34.003 --> 00:52:37.683
It's like sometimes it's like, okay,
you have to do A, B, and C, right?

00:52:37.683 --> 00:52:38.433
But it, this is like,

00:52:38.601 --> 00:52:39.001
Jacqui: Yeah.

00:52:39.023 --> 00:52:40.223
Michael: there is an end result, right?

00:52:40.253 --> 00:52:46.793
And you have a great way of being able
to figure out what is the end re-, what

00:52:46.793 --> 00:52:51.173
is the end result we want to go for and
how do we go about getting there, right?

00:52:51.193 --> 00:52:55.023
And it applies both at work
and at home and pretty much

00:52:55.103 --> 00:52:57.313
all aspects of life, right?

00:52:57.313 --> 00:52:59.653
So whether you're running your own
business, you're working for somebody

00:52:59.653 --> 00:53:04.003
else, or you're just trying to manage
your household on a daily basis, right?

00:53:04.177 --> 00:53:04.567
Jacqui: Mm-hmm.

00:53:04.733 --> 00:53:07.033
Michael: Putting in these
systems, and like you said, these

00:53:07.033 --> 00:53:08.743
systems don't have to be complex.

00:53:08.753 --> 00:53:11.113
They can be, right, and maybe
you build up to something like

00:53:11.113 --> 00:53:12.343
that, but they don't have to be.

00:53:12.483 --> 00:53:14.063
It can be a one-step system, right?

00:53:14.063 --> 00:53:18.333
We're trying to reduce that day-to-day
burden so we can do the things

00:53:18.333 --> 00:53:20.263
that matter most to us more often.

00:53:20.527 --> 00:53:20.817
Jacqui: Yes, absolutely.

00:53:20.833 --> 00:53:23.933
Michael: So I appreciate you, you coming
on and, and sharing your story with us.

00:53:23.933 --> 00:53:24.633
I appreciate it.

00:53:25.203 --> 00:53:27.393
Jacqui: Thank you for having
me since I'm not a dad.

00:53:27.433 --> 00:53:28.423
Married to a dad, but, you know?

00:53:28.579 --> 00:53:29.009
Michael: Of course.

00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:35.589
I, I, yeah, I think for me, as a
dad, I think we can learn from people

00:53:35.589 --> 00:53:37.639
of all different backgrounds and
all different experiences, right?

00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:42.799
It doesn't matter, you know,
your expertise as a parent and

00:53:42.799 --> 00:53:46.319
also your expertise in systems, I
think are both applicable to dads.

00:53:46.319 --> 00:53:50.209
And I think for myself, at least,
I've pulled, I, I'm learning as

00:53:50.209 --> 00:53:52.419
you're talking of like, these are
things that I can start to do.

00:53:52.419 --> 00:53:55.249
I can start to pull into my
world and start applying, right?

00:53:55.539 --> 00:54:00.299
Just because you're not a dad, you're a
mother, doesn't mean that what you have

00:54:00.319 --> 00:54:05.049
built and what you're, you work on isn't
applicable to what I do as a father.

00:54:05.109 --> 00:54:08.149
And I think a lot of other dads are
also going to, to feel that way.

00:54:08.149 --> 00:54:11.119
So again, I really appreciate
you, you coming on and sharing.

00:54:11.211 --> 00:54:11.611
Jacqui: Of course.

00:54:11.991 --> 00:54:12.469
This was great.

00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:12.879
Michael: Thank you.

00:54:12.879 --> 00:54:15.359
And so finally, before you go,
if you're a dad listening to this

00:54:15.389 --> 00:54:17.739
and you find yourself in between,
navigating a season that feels

00:54:17.739 --> 00:54:21.119
different, head to gaptogig.com,
subscribe to the Gap to Gig newsletter.

00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:23.989
It comes out every Friday, and it's a
quieter space to reflect on work, life,

00:54:23.989 --> 00:54:25.249
and what really matters right now.

00:54:25.499 --> 00:54:27.979
And if this conversation resonated,
consider sending it to another

00:54:27.979 --> 00:54:28.959
dad who might need to hear it.

00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:30.579
Until next time, I'm Michael Jacobs.

00:54:30.579 --> 00:54:32.529
Thanks for showing up and
listening to Gap to Gig.