Allan Glanfield on Why Working Dads Can’t Keep Waiting for Someday

0:00 Speaker: What we're doing is unlike anyone around them. And, and I do think they carry that in a positive way, that they are pretty proud of the, the life they've lived, especially over the past year or so. And so I just want them to know that, like, it's just whatever y-, whatever you wanna, whatever you want, whatever opportunity you see, like, go for it. Like, what's, I think when you, when you really sit down and think about worst-case scenario and the, the worst that could happen for, like, from, like, going and trying something and taking a risk, you, you'll probably find it's not that bad.

0:43 Michael: Welcome to Gap to Gig, the show for dads navigating the in-between season, when work, identity, and priorities start asking different questions. Here, we talk about what that season looks like and how to move through it with intention. I'm your host, Michael Jacobs, and today I'm talking with Alan Glanfield, a Canadian entrepreneur, father of two, and founder of Chuck, a family-friendly beef stick brand built around simple ingredients and life on the move. As Alan approached 40, he found himself asking a question I think a lot of dads eventually confront: If the good old days are happening right now, what are we going to do with them? For Alan and his family, the answer was anything but small. They rented out their house, packed up their lives, and began traveling full-time, all while Alan built Chuck from the road without a team or outside investors. Alan, welcome to Gap to Gig.

1:24 I'm really glad you're here. Allan: Hey, thank you so much. Michael: So there's a lot I want to unpack about the business, traveling with your family, and what this experience has taught you about fatherhood, but I want to begin with a question that seems to sit underneath all of it. You've said that the good old days are right now. What does that mean to you, and when did you first realize you weren't living as though it were true? Allan: Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I think, I think it's ma-, it just, I think it's maybe in the age at which everyone around me, including myself, is at right now. My kids are eight and five. I'm 40 next year, and, you know, m-, my parents are aging, and you just sort of realize that you're like, "Oh, this is it.

2:12 This is, this is, these are the times where everyone's in your life, everyone's still healthy and active." And, the, I'm like, "Man, these are the moments that we're gonna look back on and really kind of, you know, either cherish and be so glad that we did it a certain way or, you know, unfortunately, maybe have a few regrets or, you know, wish we had traveled more or wish we had, you know, worked less or, you know." You know, those are some of the obvious things you hear. So I've, I've sort of really taken that to heart lately and just wanted to and just constantly remind myself that, you know, these are the good old days.

2:53 These are the days that we're gonna look back on. So it's like, h-, how do we want, how do we want to represent those moments that we do look back on? So let's do bold things, you know? Let's, and let's create memories that our kids, you know, will carry along with them, you know, and share with their kids, so. Michael: That's awesome. I appreciate that not only are you living for the moment, right? Like, you are, you recognize that this is a very important time because you have both your parents are still around, fortunately, your kids are around, like you have multiple generations that you can, you can make the most of this time if you want.

3:40 And it's not just for your benefit either, right? It's the people around you that also get affected by what you d-, how you decide to spend your time, right, and to be able to slow down enough to recognize or realize like the place that you are right now, it's, I don't think it's an easy thing, you know, Allan: No Michael: especially for dads. Like we, we are so busy sometimes, right? Like we have our own work we have to do. We have to take care of things for the household, around the house. We have our, you know, our kids have appointments, and they have activities, and they have things that you, you know, need to take them to or be there for.

4:22 And, you know, you have to, if you're fortunate enough to have a spouse or a partner, like you need to be there for them as well. And you, you know, you want to have friendships too. So it's hard to sometimes slow down enough to appreciate that. Was there something that was like underneath it all that, that made you recognize this? Or did you just, just kind of like come to you cold? Like how did this recognition of the moment come to be for you? Allan: Yeah, I think like, it just sort of I, I, maybe, maybe it's the, just sort of the entrepreneurial sort of side in me in which I'm willing to take risks or willing to be uncomfortable or willing to, you know go out on a limb and, and it kind of, and I think all of that kind of makes you question and you're like, "Why are we," you know, "why are we taking… We're so wound up about the future and like, you know, taking it all so seriously?" And, and I'm surrounded by people who take things very seriously.

5:27 I have friends who are very, very like career-driven and, and it's all great. But then you, it's funny 'cause then you hear stories about how these, these crazy successful people are also like often crazy miserable and, and I'm like, man, like they're, this is, that's not the answer. It's not. There's gotta be something else. And I just sort of really started questioning everything and like what really matters and at when it, when push comes to shove and really like it's not, it's not a whole lot. You don't need a whole lot. You need your health, you know. You really want you and your family, a couple good friends. A lot of it has nothing to do with stuff, you know.

6:09 It's not like you, you realize like, I don't actually need that much. So I don't know. It was definitely this like build up over time of just being like, you know, what are we doing? And w-, like why, you know? Maybe we actually have what we've all like, what we're chasing is already in front of us, right? And so that really was, that's what really sparked us to s-, sparked us to sort of, you know, talk about, well, what if we traveled, you know, to really kind of take, you know, take that to another level of really letting a lot of things go and just only having us as our family together through a long period of time without any other distractions, so.

6:58 Michael: That's incredible. It's, there's a lot I, I find really fascinating with this. Like, you know, you mentioned early on in your answer of, like, some people are more focused on their ambition, right? Their, their careers. They want to achieve and attain as much as they possibly can, but then they realize too late that maybe that wasn't the best deci-, decision. But at the same time, like, you are entrepreneurial at heart. I am myself, right? And, like, so we do have ambition. Allan: Yeah, of course. Michael: It's a matter of what is the right ambition for my particular situation, right? Like, Allan: Yeah.

7:38 Michael: I know that my ambition is more than just my career, right? My ambition includes my family, it includes my friends, it includes experiences, right? It includes things that aren't measured by a paycheck or an investor check. It, but at the same time, like, I do want some of that stuff, right? Like, Allan: Of course. Yeah. Michael: I do need to keep Allan: a Michael: roof over my, over my head, right? I do want to achieve things in business. I do want to achieve things outside of business. So it's like, what is the right alignment? What is the right balance for me? It, for you, I find it so interesting that you were able to have this sort of internal discussion with yourself of like, "I know this is the right moment. What is the right fit for me?" I'm curious, like, what is the, how do the logistics of this work?

8:29 Like, you said to yourself, like, "Okay, you know, I, I want to travel with the family." How do you, like, a lot of dads would be like, "Okay, I've got this grand idea of packing everything up and going on the, hitting the road and doing something wild, or do, just doing something different than what is expected of me," but it's really hard to act on. Allan: Mm-hmm. Michael: So, like, how did you go from idea to execution? I imagine, like, you and your wife probably had some pretty deep discussions about this, but, like, can you walk me through that process of like, "Yeah, I want to do something different, and this is how we did it"? Allan: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It became very important to me that I'm like, you know, we're, this is, a, this is our journey. Like, we have a family.

9:10 Like, let's be on some, whether that's careers, jobs whatever. Like, let's be on this journey together. Like, instead of like, m-, this is my own career journey, and no one's a part of it, and my kids don't even know what I do, you know? And like, and I just leave it every day. I'm like, "No, I want, I want us all to be on this life journey and that we're, we're all a part of it." And that's sort of the advantage of sort of starting businesses and things like that, is you can, you can loop everyone in on it. So ag-, I get it's not, doesn't work for everybody, but that was just really a big thing for me, is let's just, let's create this story of our family and of our lives that we're all kind of feel like we're a part of and growing together.

9:58 So the traveling, again, everyone has their own kind of roadblocks to solve for. I didn't have the roadblock of say like needing to have a job where I had to go work in person, or I'm not doing a trade. So, you know, something like that would be a different challenge. I had the benefit of being able to say, "Okay, well, if we leave, I can still do eighty percent of my job from a computer and just find, you know, people to outsource the missing parts." So, I think that's like often the big thing, right? People are like, "I can't leave." I'm like, "I have a job and that won't let me."

10:41 So that, you know, that would be on you to figure that out and, and just encouraging people to sort of think out of the side of the box on that. But I think the big one is m-, was money and cost. And so in no way were we able to afford to like pay for our mortgage and our entire life here and, and be traveling. 'Cause I think people in their head, they think of traveling or like you're spending a month in Italy, like what does that cost? But there's a difference between month on vacation, hotels, eating out every night versus, you know, renting a house and living there.

11:22 And so when we factored in what we could rent our own home for, it essentially eliminated all our, all our expenses that we would have to carry at home, as well as actually leave us with a little bit of money to travel with. So all of a sudden being abroad and traveling when you have, and, and everything's covered because you, you rented your home out, traveling just becomes your version of, like, daily living 'cause you're not, you're not doubling up your expenses, right? So I'd say that was the biggest conversation is just how do we, how do we afford it and how do we do that?

12:08 And, and that was it. So it was essentially setting our home up to be a furnished rental, which meant, you know, boxing up and stowing away all of our personal items and belongings and just sort of leaving what someone would need to rent out your house, which is, like, for sure something a lot of people wouldn't be comfortable doing. But it's like that was the sort of trade-off for, like, well, if we wanna go see the world and bring our kids along with us, like, someone's gonna, you know, have to, have to cover our expenses at home. So we found, you know, people working, you know, coming in from Germany who were here for work and rented our home out.

12:52 And we went, you know, they came here, and we went over, over to Europe. So I think it, like, that's the, that was the big problem to solve. That was often the biggest reason you would sort of bail and, on the whole idea and be like, "Ah, we can't do this." But if you kinda can get over that and figure that out, then, like, everything else is pretty easy. And I think it was one of those things where we were like, if we just get a renter and someone committed, then it's official. We have to go figure this out and pull it off somehow. So it's kinda what we did. We're like, y-, you could have 10 things you need to figure out when in reality, if you just get the one solved, it, it's just gonna force you to have to do the rest.

13:34 And I think, I think it's, like, an overwhelm thing, right? Like, you get overwhelmed at the idea, and you're like, "Ah, it's too many things to figure out." And you're like, "Yeah, but if you ch-, check that first one off, you kinda gotta keep going." So yeah. Michael: Absolutely. Were there, beyond the financial aspect of it, 'cause you're obviously able to figure that out, and that was, that's a real fear going into it, were there other fears that you ha-, you or your wife had that before you embarked on this plan? And I imagine perhaps that some of those fears maybe turned out to be real, some didn't turn out to be things you really needed to, to fear. Were, I mean, beyond the financial aspect, was there anything you guys feared going into it?

14:18 Allan: Well, we wonder, like, so we had to, like, obvi-, we had to homeschool our kids. So that was, you know, that was a whole other, you know, agreement we had to make with ourselves is like, "Okay," like, "we're teachers now." So, there's definitely a fear of, like, how that's gonna go because, you know, your kids want you to be your parents not, not their teachers. So that was a bit, that was sort of we knew that would be a challenge and see how that, how that would work out. And it, you know, it, it truthfully, like, it, there were challenging components of, of doing that. But you just sort of learn to go with the flow in that, and I think that's just traveling in, in general is you have to just sort of recognize, you know, when, when to sort of take a step back and, and then, and also when to just kind of lean into it.

15:14 So we really, school became this sort of fluid thing that wasn't overly structured from a, say, time of day perspective. It was just like when, just like adults, when we're feeling inspired or curious, like we really leaned into it. And the days or times where we didn't, we just didn't push it. So that was definitely a fear 'cause it's just, you are, as a family, you're the unit every day, all day. And, and I think that's like another thing for people to get used to, right? It's kids go to school or daycare or, or, or not in, you're not together as much on a re-, yeah, at home. And now, now you're together all the time.

15:55 So it's navigating that we knew would be a, would be a challenge. But it was the best. It, it ended up being, you know, obviously the greatest. And now we have a hard time even thinking about signing into school even, you know, in the future 'cause we're like, "Yeah, we just, we're just used to each other now, and we enjoy it." Michael: Right. Right. Tough to, to change back, I suppose. Allan: I know. It's, like, hard to go back, you know? Michael: Yeah, like you, you mentioned like one of the things is that like now you have to teach your kids yourself, like you're homeschooling them. So like, you know, when people have this idea of building a business while traveling, like you're also, you're homeschooling your kids while traveling, while building Chuck.

16:37 Like, it seems like this wonderful idea, but there are, you know, moments every day like you gotta figure out like what to focus your time on. I'm curious, just like what does an ordinary kind of unpolished, non-romantic day look like for the four of you as you're traveling, they're learning, you're running a business? Like you got a lot of things going on on a daily basis. It's not just like, "Oh, we're gonna travel the world. We're gonna stay in a five-star hotel and go out to these fancy dinners and see all the sights," right? It's like, what does an actual day look like for a, a traveling family? Allan: Yeah, I mean so it would often, it, for me, it was early mornings and late nights, right?

17:24 It's because you are together all day, traveling and exploring becomes part of your kids' education. So I would say overall, we really had to, you felt this really pressure and guilt to be like, "We should be, like, working out of books every day." But, like, there was so much we could bring to their world and to their table that, like that that wasn't in books, and so we wanted to embrace that. So, like, for me, it was often being up at 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning, you know, also dealing with time changes and with, from a work perspective. You know, getting a couple hours of work in.

18:06 And then the kids are up, then we're sort of really focused on them and just living together, which is great. And, but then, yeah, after, you know, the no, there's no way around it. Like, once the kids are in bed, you're, you're kind of back to work again. So that, that was, that's sort of the agreement and commitment you kind of have to make is like there, it's much longer days. You know, you're enjoying the, the, you know, your time with your kids, but it's also tiring. So the idea of, like, putting them down and then you're like, "Oh my gosh, I have to go work for another few hours," is sort of like a big challenge for sure.

18:46 Yeah. Michael: When you are figuring out those days of like, "Okay, I gotta get up early tomorrow. I gotta, you know, get some work done before the kids get up." You go and have these experiences with your kids. You know, you spend the day with your family, and then maybe, or maybe you don't have to work again after the kids go down. It's, I don't know if you, like, consider balancing work and family or more of just, like, integrating them together more intentionally, right? 'Cause you're, you are prioritizing the time with your kids, Allan: Mm-hmm. Michael: first and foremost, from what I'm hearing, if I'm understanding correctly.

19:27 Allan: Oh, for sure. Michael: Right, so then it's like you're building work around the family life. Like, why is it, what, I guess, what is most important to you on a daily basis? How do you figure out the right balance of time or the right, you know, distribution of time on a daily basis? I assume it's like we start with the family core and then build out from there. Is that a, Allan: Yeah Michael: safe assumption, or is it like, okay, I know every day has to have these things in it? Allan: No. Yeah, I think, honestly, like, I'd have very, like, days where I'd be, like, really wound up and stressed out over it. Like, doing something like this is you, you kinda have, you have to agree that you may slow down, say, like, the growth or of your business, for example, by doing this, right?

20:19 'Cause y-, yeah, you are, you know, you are putting your family and time with your family first. And so, it really, it, it became, it was like almost career is in maintenance mode. It's like you're not, you're not, g-, blowing up over, over the next 12 months with whatever, whatever you're doing. You're just trying to keep things going. And, and that was okay with me because, you know, our kids are small for, like, not a long time, you know? Michael: No. Definitely not. Allan: And, and, there'll be plenty of time when they don't wanna hang out with me for me to, like, go work harder, you know?

20:59 And don't get me wrong, I, I, you know, with Chuck, it's growing, it's becoming busier and busier, and I, and I really, like, there's a million things I could be doing. And so there, you know, there's days where you're like, "Oh man, like, I really wish I could just have, like, a full day to crush this out." But you know, it was, it, we don't, and we didn't. And, and I just have to always remind myself, you know, it's like, "No," like, my kids are eight, you know, once. This is the wildest journey for them, and, and we need to just, like, be okay with, like, things not maybe moving as quickly as we want in other parts of our lives Michael: Right.

21:40 Allan: Because it's temporary. It's not forever. I, I would say I would take that over the reverse. Like, if I put my head down and work like crazy now, and I look up, my kids are older, and they're like, "Ah, I don't really remember you," you know? I'm like, "I don't want that. I want, I wanna, I wanna be here now," you know? And that's hard because you want to set yourself up for the future financially and all these things, but I'm trying to be very balanced and delicate with how I, you know, how far I push in either direction. Obviously, I can't just be like, "Well, I'm just not working anymore." But, really trying to, like, find that balance which prioritizes them and our time with them, while, you know, again, eight, eight years old, a couple years, you know, you can already see it, how they just start to, friends matter more and more and more, and all these things.

22:34 And so I'm like, "Let's get this in. Let's get this time in now," you know? And I think it'll pay off in the long run, too, you know? Yeah. Michael: Absolutely. I, I think what I admire most is that you are giving your family experiences, right? And like from teaching them, like you said, like it's not just about the books anymore now. It's like going out and experiencing these things, right? But it's also just in general of they are experiencing different cultures and different places and seeing different things. And not just for your kids, but for yourself and your wife too. Like, you guys are also having these experiences, right?

23:15 And there is certainly a value in experiential learning at, at any age, right? Like, Allan: Yeah. Michael: Books can teach you a lot, but you could read everything in the world in a book, until you experience it, you don't really, it's hard to grasp exactly what is being taught in that book, Allan: Yeah, for sure. Michael: or it's hard to know, you know, how to respond in that moment. What have your kids, do you think, have seen you be able to do with Chuck, your, your business that they might have missed if you had kept the business more separated from your family? 'Cause right now it, it feels fairly integrated into your family life. So like, what do they see you do, or participate in, that, with the business that they wouldn't be able to otherwise if they were leading a, you know, typical day-to-day life where they're going to school every day, and, you know, you're spending your time in the office and they're spending their time with, you know, activities and school and, and whatnot?

24:16 Allan: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, again Chuck's very much in a, in a s-, sort of a startup sort of environment. So, you know, we're doing everything. We're handling, we're doing packing, shipping, fulfillment, you know, content, photography, video, all of these things. And yeah, like if they were at school, they'd miss all that, and instead they're here or with us. When we are at home, they're seeing the fulfillment. If we're traveling, they're obviously not. But even when we're on the road, it's, you know, let's continue to create content, s-, photography, video, and kind of looping them in on that.

24:58 And when we are at home, they like, they, they get involved in even the fulfilling of orders and products and helping to manage that. And I think that's what you, when you do kind of experiment with the homeschool thing, I don't think it'll be something we do forever. But like, it's fun, it's fun in that you, you realize there's so much education in just looping them into whatever you're doing. You kind of like, you get your head down and you're like, "Well, I just gotta, like, do this job." But in reality, I'm like, they would be fascinated by it if you just, like, looked up and explained it to them and said, "Hey, like, here's how I do this.

25:38 Do you wanna, like, come and try that?" So, even later today, I, I have a background, or, in photography so we shoot all our own images, and my one daughter was cu-, is curious about it. And so I said, "Well, hey, like, you know, later today we're gonna, like, learn how to, it's not just about pushing a button, it's about how to manipulate light, and we're gonna learn about that." So she's gonna sort of understand photography at another level. So I think that's, that's what we realize with them, with having them around and with school, is that it becomes less about, you know, we do, we do look at math, sciences, reading, but also just you can, you, you can make your own life a lot easier from, from being their teacher just by bringing them into whatever you have to do that day and, and letting them understand it and be curious and learn.

26:35 So yeah, there is definitely a whole lot because Chuck is still in a very, like, early sort of phase where not only are we doing so much, like they're seeing it all and playing a, playing a part of it. And again, I don't force them to be a part of it. It's just if they're interested and curious, they're like, "Hey, can I do that?" I'm like, "Absolutely," right? And so yeah, lot, lots for sure to see. And I, and that goes back to the whole, you know, entrepreneurial thing where I'm like, "I want you to see this. I want you to see what we're doing." And it's funny, for the first time ever, they actually, when they talk to someone, they can say what I do. You know? They'd be like, "What does your dad do for a job?" And they're like, they're like "I don't really know." You know?

27:19 Now, now I'm, I'm the guy that sells meat sticks, but still they're proud of it. They see it in a store. They're like, "Look, look," you know? So, Michael: Yeah, absolutely. Allan: They're, they're involved. They, they feel like they have ownership of it, too. It's pretty cool. Michael: Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. It's so cool. I, and I can tell you for sure that what you're doing with your kids is going to be memorable to them down the road. My son just left for college, and he just mentioned to me, he's like, "I remember when," and I completely forgot about this, but like, "when we were packing up boxes for your business, and we were doing quality checks and just, like, unpacking everything, checking everything was okay, putting it back together."

28:02 And he's like, "I remember when you let us, you know, come in and, and help do exactly what you were doing." He's like, "That is a m-, a core idea for me, a core memory for me that is impacting, like, now that I'm going off to study business myself of, like, I remember that." And it is a key memory, something w-, that's important to him now, years later, many years later. I think it's gonna be the same for my daughter when she gets to college of, like, these are, you know, it's not necessarily the things that you would expect to be the most memorable that end up being the most memorable, right? It's those moments in between of like, okay, I know that today we need to get X, Y, and Z done, but what happens between X and Y?

28:48 What happens between Y and Z? Those are the things that end up being the most memorable and the most valuable. And to hear my son tell me that this week of like r-, of repeating that memory back to me, I was like, that just brought back, like so much positivity and so much memory for me of like, yeah, you know what? I'm so glad I was able to involve them in that. Like, that is so meaningful to me now, years later, that, like, that's an experience that not everybody gets to have. And it's not an experience that was like, you know, didn't turn into ten billion dollars or, like, solve world problems, but it just, it was an experience that affects them for their lives and as a result also affects myself.

29:38 And it is, it's hard to do that, but the only way to do that is to be present for them and involve them in the things that are interesting to you too. Like, I'm not gonna force them to do things that they're not interested in doing with me, but I can at least expose them to, like, these are the things that, that I do, and if you are interested in that, come on, I'll show you a little bit more, right? Like, your daughter is like, "I'm like I'm more into photography now." Like, "I'm interested in photography now." Now you're gonna teach her about capturing light and some of the more technical aspects of it because she's interested in it. But she wouldn't know that if she didn't see you doing it to begin with. So, I love that idea of, like, getting your kids involved where they wanna get involved, right?

30:22 Like, but just showing them, exposing them to what you do, getting them to, get them to know what you do. And I, I think that for me at least, I, I think you're gonna find the same thing. I, I would bet on that, that down the road, your kids are gonna be like, "I remember those times that we were, you know, packing up meat sticks," Allan: Yeah. Michael: "or that time we went to the grocery store and we saw it on the shelf." Like, those are things that, those are memories that they hold onto that in the moment you don't think about, like, oh, I'm creating this experience for them. Like, yeah, maybe you're going to take them to see some incredible, you know, monument or something. Like, maybe you're taking them to see the Eiffel Tower and you're like, that is going to be a memory they're gonna remember for a long time.

31:04 This isn't one of those things. This is like, it's an experience, right? And it's a mundane day-to-day experience, but it sticks with them for so long. I think that's just so cool. Allan: Yeah. Michael: You're c-, you're able to involve your kids to, to do that. Allan: I think I just want them to, and, and it's kind of like you were saying, you know, the size of, you know, it didn't turn into some giant billion-dollar company or something, but you're like, I, I don't necessarily, maybe that's not, maybe we're not the ones to do that, but w-, we, we are showing a younger generation that anything's possible.

31:44 We're, we're s-, you know, we're planting those seeds of like, you can create something, you can build it. And so maybe that's not our, you know, our destiny isn't to build the biggest company in the world, but could be my daughter. Who knows, right? Because we're like, you know, we're giving her that experience of showing that anything can happen and any-, and anything can, if you, if you dream it, you can build it, man. And, and, and so it's a bit of that too. It's, it's not always, I think it's important to realize it's just like, it's not always about us and that what we're doing, yeah, it can create these amazing memories or just this foundation, especially for kids where the future is kind of uncertain really.

32:29 You're like, "I don't even know what it's gonna look like for you," you know? And so the least I can do is give you an open mind and the ability to, you know, identify problems and like be curious and figure out ways to solve them, you know? Michael: Absolutely. Yeah, I think you're not only showing them opportunity, you're also giving them confidence, right, Allan: Mm-hmm. Michael: in themselves to be like, "I can go and do something like this. I can, I have the ability I see how it, it can get done." Like, you're showing them, like, that you believe in them because you're involving them in your process.

33:10 And it, you're not necessarily involving them in, like, creating the financial statements or, you know, delivering the product to the customer on time. Like, but you're showing them, like, this is possible, and you have the ability to do something like this. And these experiences give them this confidence that you don't get from reading a textbook. Allan: Right. Michael: It's a confidence you get from experience. Now, you built Chuck because, from my understanding, that you, this came from a problem that you were experiencing as a parent, right? Like, you were trying to find clean food that was convenient for your kids that they would actually eat. How Allan: Yeah. Michael: did that frustration become something you were kind of willing to build a company around?

33:56 Allan: Yeah, I think, yeah, it, we, we were always looking for sort of on-the-go protein sources for ourselves, and then when we had kids, it sort of magnified the issue of, well, now not only do we have to feed ourselves, we have to feed these kids who seem to want snacks twenty-four/seven. And, and so it was, you know, I think the question around snack foods or, or things that you can take on the go that are easy to go in a lunchbox. There's nothing very, like, protein-forward or, like, sort of what I would m-, consider maybe satisfying, f-, in situations where you really need something quick.

34:39 So meat sticks are obviously not a new product category. They're quite a s-, you know, there's a l-, lot of better for you options in the US. But there wasn't actually, surprisingly, a ton in Canada. Lots, lots of, lots of the product category but not, not sort of the better for you, minimal ingredient sort of options. So it was, it's been on my radar for years, honestly. And because it really, like, solved a problem as a family, not just, it's not just a kids thing, right? It, it works for all of us.

35:19 So it was already validated, right? It was already validated in other markets. We knew it existed. For me, again, a-, and this is, these like little lessons to pass on to your children, and it's just like, you can do anything. You can figure it out. You just maybe need a little time, persistence, looking around, right? So really for me, it came down to finding a co-packer and partner who could make the product the way I wanted to make it. And it probably took a year of looking around and, and we finally found somebody. And once we found that person, it was like, "Let's go." There was no, like, humming and hawing or waiting around or, like, wondering if we should do it. We were like, "Let's get a test run. Let's put it out there, see if people are interested." And the response was pretty, like, overwhelmingly positive quite quickly, and so we knew we sort of had something and needed to really go for it.

36:13 So yeah, it went from like, you know, a small little idea. It feels kind of overnight, but it, in, in that sense, but it really wasn't, right? There was probably a good year plus of just trying to do the research. Michael: Yeah, it's hard to see the behind-the-scenes stuff, right? 'Cause what we present out to the world is, Allan: Yeah. Michael: you know, our best selves typically, and it's, so you're promoting the, this bus-, trying to build this business, you're trying to promote the, the good parts of it, but they don't see the, the challenges and the struggles of getting to that point, right? Allan: Right. Michael: But you also, you know, you've, you're building this business essentially for just you and your family, right? Like, and you talked about sort of, well, some people can outsource things, or like in your case with your house, you sort of outsourced your house when you traveled, right?

36:55 You had somebody else living in it and maintaining it while you were, and paying you for it, while you were traveling. Like, your business, you're doing this essentially on your own. How do you kind of determine, it's, and I've done this myself where I outsource manufacturing of my product. So, to me, like, that is, I'd rather pay someone who that is what their job is, like they are the experts in it, to build the best product than it would be for me to start from scratch and catch up to them and then build the product myself. But it also gives me more flexibility, right?

37:35 Maybe a little bit less control over production runs, but it gives me more flexibility in terms of I need, I order product when I need it, right? I don't have to, to keep inventory. So for you, it's like what, you know, you're building this business purposefully and you are, you know, you're not trying to expand it as fast as you possibly can, doesn't sound like. It sounds like you're trying to keep it something that is manageable, something you can control, something that still brings you an income at the end of the day, right? But not something that you're just going to throw caution to the wind and bring on everybody on board. Allan: Right. Michael: How is, I mean, I assume you're doing this mostly through, you know, you outsource, you have a co-packer that is making the product for you, right, packing it up and, and shipping it out.

38:19 And I know we were talking offline, like you had to personally deliver an order last week, like to like sometimes, you, you know, we have to get into the weeds and just get things moving from one to the other. How do you figure out what the right balance is for you in terms of like, well, sometimes it makes sense to outsource, sometimes I have to do it myself. Like, how do you make those decisions? Allan: Yeah, I always wanna sort of have the two, you know, two options f-, as much as possible. So there's, you know, o-, the preferred option, but always sort of a backup option. And right, right now we actually happen to be home. So yeah, like I was saying, it's like I, I can, I can go jump in the truck and deliver something if we have to.

39:05 But up un-, up until now it was sort of finding, finding people to do those things. I think right now it's not everything, not everything sort of makes sense in the long run, but it's just sort of that sort of startup mode where you're like, "Let's, even if this is kind of cost prohibitive, let's just keep pushing. Let's even pay, paying for 3PLs or whatever to get product out there. Let's do it now knowing that we will have the goal of sort of reducing those costs in the future." But honestly, there's like, there's, it doesn't ma-, like, you can outsource every part of the business.

39:49 It's whatever you don't wanna do, you can, you can hand it off if you, if you're willing to pay for it. But I'm, I'm with you. Like, I'm, I'm trying to kind of keep anything in-house to a, a minimum for now. So yeah, we're, we're trying to not sort of, we're trying to keep that overhead low, keep it simple. Michael: Yep. Yeah. Right, that makes sense. So one more question before we get into the speed round. I'm curious, what, what do you hope your children learn from watching you take this risk with building Chuck? And what do you want to make sure that they don't absorb from maybe the stress or ambition that, that comes with it?

40:29 Allan: I think there's nothing I don't want them to absorb. I, 'cause you can't, you can't think that, you know, starting something's all just 100% fun, you know, all the time. I think it's okay to see your parents upset or stressed or whatever. I think that's fine. It's just hopefully you're not that all the time. So I wouldn't say there's anything, like, glaring that I don't want them to see. I, I want them to see. I want them to understand. And, and we do talk about how we're feeling and the s-, you know, certain situations 'cause if they are wondering, like, why, you know, why does he, why does Dad seem grumpy? It's like, well, I'll just tell you why, and at least you know.

41:10 You know? I just hope they understand that, like, l-, you can design your life the way you want. I mean, it's, it's up to you. You can decide that you want all the things and, and therefore you have to find the, the means to pay for all those things. You can decide you want a really simple life, and, and therefore maybe not have to work as hard. And there is no right answer for anybody. And, and I think they already know this. Like, the path we've chosen is not like their friends'. You know? They're, they're not, they're not, they, they fully understand that, you know, what we're doing is unlike anyone around them.

41:53 And, and I do think they carry that in a positive way, that they are pretty proud of the, the life they've lived, especially over the past year or so. And so I just want them to know that, like, it's just whatever you, whatever you wanna, whatever you want, whatever opportunity you see, like, go for it. Like, what's, I think when you, when you really sit down and think about worst-case scenario and the, the worst that could happen for, like, from, like, going and trying something and taking a risk, you, you'll probably find it's not that bad. Michael: Yeah, that's such a… I, I love the, the honesty in that answer of like, you are, you're not hiding from the kids, right?

42:36 You're not sheltering them from some of the negativity. Now, granted, you seem to have a pretty good handle on your life and your business, so it's not like you are acting out in front of them constantly and making things, Allan: Yeah. Michael: You know, n-, not so easy for them. But you are, you're being real with them of like, you know, these are the things that I have to do on a daily basis, but at the same time, you're doing it in a way that It's probably coming across as motivational, right? Of like, you have opportunity. You get to choose what opportunity you want to pursue, right? Like you said, like, you want the, all the things in the world, the, and you want to put in the effort to try and attain the, the resources to do that, great.

43:23 If you want to live a simpler life and, you know, have a little bit more balance in your life per se, that's an option too. Like, you have options. The opportunity is for you to choose. You get to, to choose direction, right? And what I think is, you know, a lot of dads I speak to, some have the same thought as you. Some have this idea of like, "No, my kids need to achieve and accomplish. They need to be top of the, the class. They need to, you know, have these particular experiences. They need to go to these particular schools." But at the end of the day, it's like, for what? Because once they get out of school, they're in their 20s, they're in their 30s, like, you're not controlling Allan: Right.

44:05 Michael: what they're gonna do. You've only shown them there's only kind of one path, right? Whereas for you, in particular, I'm like, you are showing them the paths are limitless. You just have to decide which direction you want to go, right? It's, you're being honest with them of like, you could go this direction of doing all the things in the world to do, and, you know, you could go to the top schools, and you could study this, and you can do these things. Or you could try doing some of that and doing something else, or you can try going in a completely different direction. Like, it's up to you at the end of the day, 'cause eventually Allan: Yeah. Michael: Kids have to make their own decisions, right? They become adults, they have to, you know, they're responsible for themselves. They're gonna have to decide what is interesting to me, what is going to be, like, and for me personally, it's like I want my kids to be able to choose the path that they want.

44:54 I want them, at the end of the day, for me, it's like I want them to be able to contribute to those around them. I want them to make, I want them to be happy in their lives, and I want them to make the people they care about, the people they surround themselves with, make them better in any way that they can, right? And for me, I can't tell them like, "This is the only way you can do that." Like, "You have to become a doctor. You have to become a lawyer." No, it's you choose the path you want to, you think is best for you, and you try it out and see where it goes. But I just think that's, that's fascinating to me and, and I love the way that you have set it up for your kids of showing them, I mean, you're essentially, I mean, you're literally showing them the world, right, 'cause you're traveling, but you're, Allan: Yeah, yeah.

45:35 Michael: In doing so, you're showing them optionality essentially at the end of the day, which I think Allan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, who, Michael: is just so cool. Allan: like, yeah, I don't know. I don't, why, why should we decide what, what's gonna make you happy at the end of the day? It's your life, you know, and I, and I'm gonna, I wanna support you and be along with that. And, and I, I want our relationship to be awesome. I don't want there to be this tension because I, like, pushed you or did something that, to get in your way. Yeah, I w-, I, I think, y- you know, as, as we age and, you know, our kids grow up, it's like, at the end of the day, we just wanna have great relationships with them.

46:17 So I, I just don't wanna do anything that would kinda get in the way of that. Michael: Yep. I'm with you 100%. Love that. So I want to go from the, the super serious and inspirational to the not so serious and not so, not so inspirational. The speed round, five quick questions starting with what's the first kids show theme song that comes to mind? Allan: Oh, kids show. Power Rangers. Michael: Power Rangers. Okay, classic. What was your very first job? Allan: Very first job I worked at a place called Canadian Tire. I'm trying to think of what that would be. It'd be like a, call it a Home Depot.

47:04 Michael: Okay. So a retail store type place? Allan: Yeah. Yeah. Michael: Or is it more of like a tire shop kind of? Allan: No, it's like a retail kind of Michael: Doing auto repair. Allan: handyman, sort of, you know, supply. Michael: Oh, cool. cool. How old were you when you took that job? Allan: I was in high school. I would've been like 16. Michael: Nice. Allan: Side note, I did, I did have a similar sort of childhood to m-, to my kids, is my, my parents both ran businesses. So there's definitely some under the table, like, working to, you know, make some money and buy, you know, buy a Lego set or something before that, but that was the official job. Yeah.

47:44 Michael: Would you rather spend 24 hours with a toddler-sized T-Rex or a T-Rex-sized toddler? Allan: Hmm. Toddler, toddler-sized T-Rex. Michael: Why is that? Allan: That's a big toddler. I don't know if I want to deal with a big toddler. I like the idea of the little, like the little dinosaur idea. Michael: Yeah. Oh, that's fair. I'd probably choose the same. What's your go-to karaoke song or the one you would sing if you had to? Allan: Like Don't Stop Believing? Is that what's coming? Yeah, Journey. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. And finally, what's the weirdest thing you've ever carried around in your bag, briefcase, or pockets?

48:25 Allan: Weirdest thing? Well, to me, it's normal, but to everyone else, like, generally I have a meat stick in my pocket and Michael: Sure. Allan: people are like, "What? Where'd you get that from?" I'm like, "Oh, don't ask." Michael: Right. Right. I mean, it makes sense, you know, having a meat stick company that you would carry those around with you. Allan: Yeah. Michael: Allan, I appreciate it. Before we wrap up, I want to give you some space to point people toward whatever is most important to you right now. Where can listeners go to learn more about you, follow your family's journey, check out what you're building with Chuck, or anything else you want to leave them with? Allan: Sure, yeah. We, as far as following a bit of our journey and what we're up to we're, we spend most of our time on Instagram, so it's just @eatchuck.

49:12 And yeah, our website is, is the same, eatchuck.com. So yeah, we try to share a bit of, bit of our travels and different things and kind of make it a pretty transparent sort of place to share what we're up to, yeah. Michael: Very cool. We'll make sure to put links to both of those in the show notes Eat Chuck on Instagram and eatchuck.com. Allan: Great. Michael: Allan, I, thank you so much for being so open about the, the leap your family's taken and the, the reality of building a business in the middle of it while you're traveling the world and, and homeschooling your kids and just so many experiences. I appreciate the, the reminder that we don't necessarily always have to choose between ambition and presence, right?

49:55 Like, you're getting a healthy dose of both with building Chuck while traveling with your family. But you, you also give a great reminder of, like, having to be intentional about designing that life that, that allows you to, to make room for both. So, Allan: Yeah. Michael: I really appreciate you taking the time to, to chat with me today. Thank you so much. And before you go, if you're a dad listening to this and you find yourself in between navigating a season that feels different, head to gaptogig.com. Subscribe to the Gap to Gig newsletter. Comes out every Friday, and it's a quieter space to reflect on work, life, and what really matters right now. And if this conversation resonated, consider sending it to another dad who might need to hear it. Until next time, I'm Michael Jacobs. Thanks for showing up and listening to Gap to Gig.